Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

1115011511153115511561797

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    'Lacks analysis or objectivity'!! Brilliant.

    and 'recent evidence' has been turned on its head.

    few facts below.

    The Springbok will have a stronger side compared to what Ireland played against in the WC. Added to the fact that Ireland will now have a significantly weaker side.

    In SA now. Home. Its a factor. Altitude. It's real. No matter what Cullen or Farrell said/say. It's a significant factor. Underestimated by most.

    Ireland and Leinsters work rate at getting into attacking shape is what had sets them apart.

    Ireland's attack stuttered v Eng, v Scot & has regressed significantly at Leinster.

    Bulls kicked the ball (surprise!) expertly and Leinster were out of puff.

    That's the forte of Pollard (a former Bull) and le Roux (Bulls).

    Keenan and Park are integral to Ireland. & Incredibly fit.

    Tony Brown. One of the best. It'll still be kick heavy.

    And Jerry Flannery read Jones.

    I could go on but that's enough for today. Enjoy the games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,951 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    It's a gimmick, and an unnecessary one at that. Did we need a 6-2 split to win a Grand Slam, or a series in NZ? I don't see any advantage to it at all, and I think it particularly undervalues the contribution of backs. Leinster could've done with being able to bring someone in the backs to spark a line break, more than they needed another backrow.

    The risk of it going wrong is far too high for any marginal benefit over a 5-3.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    Yeah, as I said, I generally consider it an unnecessary gamble myself (and have said this previously) but still think the analysis above I was responding too was unnecessarily simplistic.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Springbok will have a stronger side compared to what Ireland played against in the WC

    In what way?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Yeah but with all due respect, England arent on par with SA or even close to it really. If we have the same level of performance SA will be much more punishing and wont be as forgiving in defence, even with a new attack and defence coach. The main challenge for Ireland is upfront if we can get parity or even close to parity we'll have every chance in the series as like you said SA arent like NZL when it comes to being ruthless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    So as far as I can see, you've pointed to every single factor that benefits SA and pointed to every factor doesnt benefit Ireland and made you're conclusion based on that…very objective indeed!

    I dont really see much reason in even getting into a discussion about this as you clearly arent capable of being impartial.

    I suspect you'll keep the factors that don't favour SA as damage control if you end up having egg on your face.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    6-2 split works for teams that like to beat the opposition up front, like SA for example. For a team like Ireland its more important to be flexible which is why having a 5-3 is far more beneficial. I've yet to see the benefits of it tbh and if anything the risk is greater than the reward.

    I'm looking at the evidence you've presented as its the only evidence I can judge…I dont see why if you have other evidence why you havent presented it so all I can do is judge this evidence. When you consider how the season ended for the Irish provinces and how SA are going into this RWC as World Champs I cant help but feel a large portion of the reasons you back SA are emotive based because the evidence you showed isnt very convincing and is at best debatable.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I think if Ireland had Hansen/JOB fit they would go with a 5-3 spilt during the 6 nations. In this tour you have Hansen and Keenan out so again the options in the backs reduced. In the case of just getting the best players in the 23 you might have the 6-2 spilt again

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    Okay, I honestly don't care this much about this argument. I gave my reasons and rationale, you disagree, whatever.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd expect Ireland to lose this tour and I also expect Ireland to decline somewhat over the next year at least.

    Its not really about our talent but more that we relied on synergy imo between ireland and leinster's systems that doesn't exist any more and will get wider. That should start being apparent.

    In fact, i think one of the mistakes of the world cup was that we didn't as purely play that style post the NZ tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Whichever one of Ringrose or Henshaw isn't starting at 13 (assuming Aki is at 12) would be an excellent #23. Stockdale and Osborne would be good options too. McCloskey's done it in the past, but for me that only works if Henshaw starts at 12 and can move to outside centre if necessary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,951 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We have JOB, Osborne and Frawley who can all play across the entire back line. Depending on who gets slotted for 15, 2 out of that 3 could be on the bench, along with a SH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    This make's absolutely no sense. I think you are massively overthinking things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I was pondering what the squad might look like for a summer tour next year while a lot of the players would be away with the Lions. I'd like to see them play Argentina. That would be a challenge in line with where Ireland now are.

    lh: Tom O'Toole, Jeremy Loughman, Jack Boyle

    h: Ronan Kelleher, Rob Herring, Tom Stewart

    th: Finlay Bealham, Oliver Jager, Scott Wilson

    sr: James Ryan, Iain Henderson, Thomas Ahern

    bs: Cormac Izuchukwu, Ryan Baird

    os: Will Connors, John Hodnett

    no. 8: Jack Conan, Nick Timoney

    sh: Craig Casey, Caolan Blade, Nathan Doak

    oh: Ciarán Frawley, Sam Prendergast, Harry Byrne

    lw: Jacob Stockdale, Shane Daly

    ic: Stuart McCloskey, Jamie Osborne

    oc: Robbie Henshaw, Stewart Moore

    rw: Calvin Nash, Jordan Larmour

    fb: Jimmy O'Brien

    Maybe Healy, O'Mahony and Murray would still be selected. They are playing next season, but it would probably be hanging on too long.

    The backrow could look quite different. Maybe Timoney is considered at openside. And McCann, Culhane or Gleeson could come into the mix.

    Scrumhalf is interesting. I'd like to see Patterson, Devine and Gunne taken on the EI tour. Could any of them then kick on into consideration for Ireland?

    Herring would be 35. If he had been phased out by then I'd say Lee Barron might be next up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    But if you look at the 23, which Farrell seems to do, as the best 23 he has available is a 6 -2 spilt more likely because we have better forwards compared to the backs

    Then he has to have 2 backs on the bench

    To me thats what he was doing in 6 nations



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91 ✭✭CorneliusBrown


    Looking forward to this! Hope we smash em but worried we’ll fall short. I’m certain we’d win at least one of the matches if played at home tho



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Two good showing, hopefully one win and maybe identify one new player for the 23 would be a success



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,951 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    It amounts to wanting an extra backrower basically, perhaps in part due to POM not being capable of maintaining his game for a full 80. McCarthy and Baird/ Conan is sufficient cover across the back row imo. VdF and Doris are well capable of playing well for an entire match, as are Beirne and Ryan typically. For me, I think there would be more value in bringing on a fresh centre and outside back to exploit tired bodies towards the end of game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If you look at the options in the 6 nations the backs hadn't got huge talent sitting outside of the 23, Ringrose was injured, Hansen was out etc

    If Farrell had a full fit squad to pick from I think he would go 5-3 all the time like he did before. POM getting taken off is not an issue as they always seemed to take a backrow off…..

    I would prefer a 5-3, I dont like the 6-2 and we are just trying to copy a SA team whcih we are not, I dont think it worked at Leinster either



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Baird still blows very hot and cold. I think I'd be more confident seeing Izuchukwu's name down to start at blindside if it wasn't O'Mahony.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Yeah cap a lad that has played one full 80 mins

    V the world champions in their own backyard

    He'd want to be a special talent to warrant that based on this year's appearances



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You're talking about Izuchukwu here, and not O'Mahony, right?

    Baird makes breaks when there's already a gap for him to run through, but, from what I've seen, Izuchukwu can break a tackle and then make a run. The latter is a more useful ability against this SA team (or just in general).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    You're talking about Izuchukwu here, and not O'Mahony, right?

    Yes, he has played 500 odd mins of rugby, can't see him starting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    How much did Hansen play before he was selected? if he is ripping it up in training then Im sure Farrell wil put him in



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    He had more mins for connacht and 2 or 3 super rugby seasons behind him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    7 full 80 min games plus a super rugby season including a final

    Izuchukwu had a run of minutes v scarlets, munster & leinster, outside of that v little

    Well & good if he's ripping it up in training but don't see the club form to justify a start v SA imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    he has played before this season and had the EI tour



  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    Murray Kinsella has a pretty cool piece today about how a Japanese rugby coach, Atsushi Tanabe, the attack coach of the Kubota Spears, spent a couple of weeks here to enhance his coaching skills etc. Bernard Jackman facilitated/set it up, and during his time here he spent some time with: Paul O'Connell, Jacques Nienaber, Andrew Goodman, Mike Prendergast, Simon Broughton (Leinster Academy manager), Mark Sexton (Connacht Attack coach), Alan Kingsley (Argentina kicking coach) and Andy Skehan (St Michael's College head coach).

    His interesting takeaway, and comparison to Japan, was how Ireland really have developed its own style and systems, by comparison to Japan, which he feels is still extremely NZ/Aus influenced.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Thanks for the summary - saw the article on the42 but couldn't get past the pay wall. Interesting stuff.



Advertisement
Advertisement