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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his CO. Jailed after appeal

1568101152

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    I’d say if he was an Asylum Seeker and not a soldier some of the pitchfork wielders here would be supporting the decision 🤣

    Fact is there’s an issue with the entire justice system, way too soft.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Seems very apparnet in this case. But not all cases. Plenty times we get it right and we dish out justice. There are some wonderful people doing this country a great service in the justice system. But, at times I feel there are some really bizarre and poor calls made. Overall I would have to say we are too soft on serious crime. Much too soft. And it's a huge reason why scumbags continue to commit serious crime



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 58,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    My understanding is the 3k was paid with no prejudice towards any civil proceedings that may arise from the case. In other words, she can still sue the pants off him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Army needs to court martial Pvt. Crotty forthwith or the top Brass will be hauled over the coals by the politicians who see the public outrage at this case.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 58,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Pretty much, they're one of the lynchpins in how power is divided in the State between Legislature, Executive and the Judiciary. It's almost impossible to remove them too due to the Constitution, they can only be removed for 'stated misbehaviour or incapacity'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,746 ✭✭✭SteM


    Wondering how long it would be before someone brought up asylum seekers. People just cant help themselves. Let's just discuss this case without bring up external nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,368 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    There would be no prejudice either way. This was a criminal sentencing hearing.

    I have seen cases of less serious assault where people have arrived to court with 5k and were told go and get another 5k immediately.

    It is dealt with there and then.

    3k is an absolute joke.

    Civil proceedings if she does go down that route can take years and he can refuse to pay for years where she will have to take another case to force him to and even then it will be some garnishing of salary if has one.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 12,355 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    It's actually frightening that this guy didn't get a jail sentence, nevermind a long one. The judges comments are astounding however just because he didn't go to prison doesn't mean it won't affect his career, that wasn't up for the judge to decide. He is still a convicted criminal.

    The defence forces have a process to go through, they can't just boot someone out without following due process, it leaves themselves open to legal action by this scumbag.

    In defence of the officer, he was called to court to give evidence of his dealings with the guy, he could only comment on what he knew in his dealings, if we take the officer at his word, the guy was possibly a professional and courteous soldier. Remember this evidence is given under oath. You are only allowed answer the questions you're asked, and you have to answer truthfully.

    I suspect the army will bin him and if not it will absolutely affect his career progression. No way this guy makes it past private. He will go into the job market having an early discharge from the defence forces and a criminal conviction. His career is fucked, which makes it all the more bizarre that that is the reason the judge gave for not imprisoning him. It just goes to show how far removed the judiciary are from society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Indeed….and I just want to add that judges serve an extremely important part in any democracy/society. They absolutely need power and some autonomy. I understand this. And there are some fantastically brilliant minds in the judiciary. But that doesn't mean they should have complete carte blanche all the time. This case, judgment has horrified people, and rightly so!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Every Judge in every juristriction will give leniency for a guilty plea, it's not because they want to but because they have to.

    A guilty plea saves the state enourmous money and time and if a Judge does not acknowledge this with a more lenient sentence than the maximum allowed the defendant will have the sentence overturned on appeal.

    The injustice in this case is the Judge was far too lenient in the sentence he imposed, his suspending the entire sentence imposed was ridiculous and his attitude towards the victim was abbhorrent.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 58,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    That's exactly what they're doing now but they had to wait for the outcome of the civilian criminal trial. And just as an FYI for anyone interested he could still technically be jailed if they do court martial him - https://www.military.ie/en/public-information/courts-martial/classes-of-courts-martial/

    Now they may just choose to dishonorably discharge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Highlighter75


    He'd never get the max after a guilty plea. But 3 years would have been an expected sentence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    re Snapchat, there’s guys you might meet on Tinder who want to use Snapchat simply to send disappearing dick pics. Ask women who have used Tinder, a lot of dicks out there. Snapchat is unfortunately too popular among guys of all ages, not just a teen’s app. But you know they could be trouble if they want to use it, hence instant blocking.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 12,355 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    It should be noted as well that an officer/private relationship is purely professional as well. The Commandant would have had zero social interaction with Crotty in or out of the workplace. It's a hierarchy, they don't really mix.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, I understand he may not have gotten the max sentence

    Here's one for legal eagles: does a guilty plea absolutely mean you CANNOT receive the max sentence, or can a judge use discretion and still apply a max sentence?

    In murder a guilty plea still means a "mandatory" life sentence…just one I thought of. Only sentence available, so little different I guess



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Highlighter75


    There's no advantage in pleading guilty to murder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,473 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    What were the lads who were with this scumbag doing while he assaulted this lady???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I know…I juts added it….still wondering on my actual question though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Just because someone comes to court with compensation and is told by the judge to go away and get more or go to prison does not mean the victim cannot later take a civil case for compensation.

    In this case I very much doubt the victim will have her considerable medical expenses covered by the derisory sum the judge ordered Crotty to hand over.

    Crotty is now convicted of the assault so that makes civil proceedings more straightforward.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Highlighter75




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No. Just asked a question is all. Maybe someone from legal background can answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭I told ya


    A number of points arise.

    1. The DF could not take any action while the case was before the courts. Now as the case has been dealt with the DF can take action.
    2. As regards the officer who gave the reference, a colleague here at work was in the PDF. His view is that the officer was not his CO but his company CO, by virtue of his rank. This matter would have been referred by the CO to Brigade HQ and further up the command structure. The officer would simply have looked at his personal file, spoken to some of the NCOs and had his own experience to rely on. And discussed amongst the officers. At the moment, I have to give the benefit to the officer that he was truthful to the Court. My colleague did not know under what laws/rules the DF would give a character reference other that in his time in the PDF it was custom and practice where soldiers were before the courts on criminal charges. This case may well lead to a change, for the better.
    3. He is also of the view that the wheels are now in motion to dismiss the soldier.

    In my view, the sentence and the judge's remarks are totally out of order and I feel the DPP will appeal.

    I can only wish the young lady all the best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Fully agree with you!

    He should in Prison, but for some reason he's not. And there are ALOT of people who should be in prison in this country and are not.

    And what it boils down to is having somewhere to put them.

    Example: There's a well known little scrote in D2 who at the age of 16 had racked up over 116 convictions for burglary, assault, theft, etc. (This was pre covid). A judge sentenced him to 5 years for something he did at the age of 16 citing "You're going to kill someone". Garda rang Oberstown, who said they had no space for him. He stayed in Jail at Pearse Street station for a week and they had to let him go, because they don't have the facilities to keep someone long term.

    As a Victim fighting for justice in our legal system, that's what you're up against.

    It's not just judges making poor calls or character references, it's the whole damn thing. The legal system is effectively part of the infra in Ireland and as with the rest of the Infra in Ireland, it is inadequate.

    Edit: Just to add to this. the DPP do not lead the prosecution in cases like this. For cases like this it's the arresting Garda who leads the prosecution. so you effectively have a Garda up against a senior legal expert (Solicitor/Barrister - probably paid for by the taxpayer) in court…. like it's wonder we get any convictions at all, let alone proper sentences. Ireland is the one of the only countries in the world where this happens. The DPP only get involved very serious cases (murder, etc)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,429 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that was one minor detail of the media coverage i was seeing; several stories referring to crotty as an officer; a term i had previously assumed that journalists understood the meaning of, but clearly not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I’m not sure why you are so agitated about Togher’s choice of words. I think that “exceptionally disappointed” sounds like a professionally worded description of his feelings on the matter. The lasd thing you need is trained military personell to lose their composure and give way to emotive displays. I think you are angry at the wrong person here.



  • Posts: 419 ✭✭ Kenzie Flabby Poltergeist


    Hopefully some vigilante kicks the sh*t outta him, that would be justice..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,142 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Not agitated at all. Just observant.

    And why exactly is the last thing we need for a member of the defence forces to be too “emotive?” Would our National security become vulnerable or something?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,359 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    So he has to report back to his senior officers, grand.

    Why did he have to address the court? What has that got to do with reporting back to the defence forces?



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