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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    I think I disagree with 75% of your reasoning here. Furlong has actually played pretty well of late, unlike the guy you’re proposing to replace him with, Bealham, who is on an awful run of form and on his last outing got completely exposed by Ed Byrne.

    James Lowe is still playing great - was one of a handful of Leinster players who played well on Saturday and I’d be shocked if he wasn’t starting for Ireland if he’s healthy.

    Disagree on Larmour being flexible - just don’t see it with him. He’s really only a winger I think at this level, especially if Frawley is in the squad.

    Would squarely disagree with Prendergast being a better back row than Ryan Baird - there’s simply nothing to back that up. He’s a good player, but that’s a big statement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭thePigeon_


    Did you mean to say Izuchukwu and Baird are better back rows than locks..? Baird is definitely a better back row than lock and Izuchukwu is only going because of his swap to 6.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,574 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The squad was announced about 5 hours ago, I've been offline since then but I can't get my head around Coombes not being in the squad.

    Was it Cave that said his face didn't fit, Coombes must feel the same. His stats are unreal but he's not getting a look in for Ireland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    One year left on both Coombes and Hodnetts contracts. You’d imagine both would have more money on offer abroad, especially Coombes, who would be a great fit for Top 14. Obviously it depends on their priorities but neither is anywhere close to the Ireland squad based on these selections. As a Munster fan I’m very worried.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,574 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I just said as much here at home, he's played some great rugby and can't get a look in for a summer tour. I hope there's something else that will keep him at Munster as there isn't much hope of international caps for him ATM.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    5 of his last 7 matches he has been on the bench…

    At the end of the day Farrell clearly doesn't rate him. I don't necessarily think he is above reproach or anything, but he has made this clear so it isn't a surprise. For me Coombes lacks the top level pace and strength to be effective at international level. Cian Prendergast has had a great season for Connacht and Izzy is very exciting for Ulster and they and Timoney have been chosen over him for various reasons. I would never be worried about Coombes having to play a match for Ireland, but I'd put him in the same basket as someone like Rhys Ruddock who just lacks a bit at the very top end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Coombes probably falls down in acceleration and open field speed. How much have you seen him running in the open and showing a good turn of pace? Timoney is way ahead in that regard.

    Maybe if he went and got some training in doing block starts and 60m running it would be good for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,574 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Starting from the bench or not being in the match day team hasn't hindered other players, his stats are very impressive even with starting from the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I think they are covering lock in this squad but Prendergast is purely covering back row, and I rate him higher than the other two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Being frank, I see Ryan Baird as a show pony, he’s grand if the ball bounces just right for him to go on a gallop, but I’d rather Prendergast anytime, just a better back row forward, much tougher and better at the graft required, much closer to O’Mahony’s Style.
    And I did preface my post by saying it is out there compared to usual selections.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    and i think most munster fans would argue that, while it worked well in SA, not starting coombes (and RG) on saturday probably didnt work out. i dont think it worked all that well against ulster either tbh but we got away with it



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Coombes is a way better player than ruddock.

    Farrell is an intensely system based selector. More so than any other international coach imo. Coombes would have been given more rope by almost any other major country and their coaching team.

    It worries me a little the new dissonance between leinster and ireland style wise. Ireland was built on that synergy imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    I'm really looking forward to the tour. Love watching Ireland play.

    Oh sorry, I'm doing it wrong. All these selections are wrong! Why haven't all those amazing 19 year old promising players who might have a high ceiling been selected! Ridiculous!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Interesting squad, I'd have left Healy at home, maybe POM too but then not sure who steps up to the leadership plate in that environment. Murray could have been left at home too but he's had a good season and still has plenty to offer and once JGP was out there was no way he was being left out. I've always liked Blade so happy to see him in, not his best season but he's a good 3rd 9 to have and won't let us down if he does end up on the pitch.

    Prendergast, not sure what he's done to get on a squad like this so soon but it'll be a good experience for him. He could get eaten alive defensively if he makes it on the field but I don't think that's why he's there.

    No idea what Coombes and Hodnett have to do to get a look in, baffles me completely. Glad for Izzy, exciting prospect. Loughman is unlucky from a Munster point of view but don't think the others taken instead are miles ahead, tight enough call that I'm not too pushed about.

    Larmour, love him going forward in terms of x-factor but I don't see him improving his positioning or aerial ability at 27 at this stage. Willie Le Roux had a field day down his wing. Hope Nash starts as he's just a better player.

    Big tour for Casey, he was poor the last day but that was the exception rather than the norm. Good chance to lay serious claim to the back 9 jersey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭VayNiice


    I was ridiculed for saying this before but I've heard numerous times now that it's not his physical capabilities, skills or on field performances for munster that are lacking..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,226 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    The only surprise for me , is that with JGP not going , Cooney not given a go as backup, assume its his age, given Johnny no longer involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Bench is just a convenient new excuse imo… Conan being on the bench constantly doesn't seem to do his chances any harm. Murray also has spells on the bench. Leinster rotate their 10s every week.

    Pace, yeah maybe, if that's what you want your 8 doing. But strength… are ya mad! He's one of the most powerful rugby players on the island. A lot of his tries highlight reel is him barreling through players in the tight. He's an absolute ox. He also covers lock, and I'd say he'd make at least similar or better stab at it than Izzy or Baird. Handling is very good also.

    Genuinely don't know how a player regularly posting the level of carries/tackles/rucks/tries that he does is not worthy of more of a look in. But there ya have it, them's the breaks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Clearly he isn't, given Ruddock put in motm performances for Ireland, and actually made squads



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I mean, if how you judge how good players are is by looking at who was picked and who wasn't, and not watching them and forming your own opinion…. then you do you.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm aware bench players can make it, I'm just saying Munster have chosen to bench him for a reason. Maybe the question should be why JOD isn't there rather than him?

    In terms of strength, yeah I get he is strong but I don't think it is as easy to overpower people at international level - I phrased that poorly. I don't think he can rely on his strength as much to overpower people. My point with the reference to Ruddock is just that there are people who are very good at a certain level who just aren't quite at the level to go above it. I could be wrong on Coombes, much like Farrell, but he has been in squads a number of times so Farrell has seen him. Potentially he just thinks that his game wouldn't translate well to international level. It's worth at least asking why he was benched for Munster, perhaps his stats weren't translating to a performance the team could use.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,083 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Farrell is an intensely system based selector.

    Even if this was true (and I don’t think anyone really believes it), isn’t the inability of a player to adapt to the team’s systems a massive black mark against him?

    Like, why can Timoney and Prendergast - aka the guys keeping Coombes out of the squad - manage it and he (according to you) cannot? They don’t play for Leinster either.

    That’s not the fault of the coaches, that’s the fault of the player.

    But again, that’s your theory, not mine.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I believe it. I'm one.

    Everyone is suited to one system or another. Depending on how long Nienebar stays at Leinster, you will start to see guys get marginalized because of that. Lowe defensively, VdF generally are two guys i'll be watching next year especially.

    Prendergast and Timoney are better system fits. Coombes skillset is something Farrell seems to want in the second row rather than back row. However, that skillset is something very valued outside ireland by other coaches. Or even at leinster, Nienebar would start coombes imo and shift doris to seven.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I also watched Ruddock and he was a better player than Coombes. As reflected by his caps and being made captain at every level he played at.

    Sorry that Man God incarnate Coombes was tragically not selected for the umpteenth squad in a row. It's obviously everyone else's fault but his.

    Mod: warning.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    My take is I don't think Coombes was dropped for Munster, there was an evolution in our approach as we got more of our squad fit again and decided to try him (and others) from the bench to close out matches strongly. He was starting for the vast majority of the last few seasons. If Munster made a final versus Leinster or Bulls he'd start. Or if they got to play Glasgow all over again he'd start and so would Snyman (all imo). I wasn't too fond of the approach to be honest and posted as much but it did work on occasion against the weaker sides. I think it was a useful exercise by the coaching staff and I'm not going to complain about innovation but if we were at the business end of the season again next year I'd be hoping Coombes starts every day of the week. Maybe Gleeson/Edogbo/Quinn/Aherne can give us that oomph from the bench that JOD doesn't next season if we can keep a few fit.

    JOD is well down the pecking order at international level and I'm not sure if you're serious there about him over Coombes possibly in green, he's still a good player at URC and Heineken level but those injuries robbed us a bit of his true potential. He's got the Mick O'Driscoll/Billy Holland role in the Munster squad now, he'll lead us in those dirty away nights in Wales and Scotland when our best players aren't available and his versatility means he's a great bench option.

    I think your comment about his game not translating well could be closest to the truth, maybe not the international level bit of it, I think he'd do well internationally (and he has had good performances in green lest we forget, people seem to focus on his last game where he was just back from injury and had an off day as if that's his level and that's that). Just to how Farrell wants his 8 to play. I just think you get Doris to 6 and JvdF at 7 to do the carrying and leave Coombes blitzing attacking and defensive rucks like he's been doing all season maybe there's a fit there. Get him carrying the dirty yards tieing up tackles, offloading, and carrying close to the tryline. I don't think he'd partner well with Baird at 6, Prendergast maybe. Anyway, it's all moot, I don't think he can have done much more to be honest, if it was a player from another team posting those kind of stats I'd wager their fans would be saying the same.

    It's a competitive position and Timoney and Prendergast are fine players too who I admire so good luck to them.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't know why you are getting so emotional, but that's fine. You are allowed to have your opinion. I'm allowed to disagree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,574 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Looking at any of the Irish Squads (and remember we're only talking about a squad here) since Farrell took over I really don't get the "Coombes is on the bench for Munster" stuff, it's a lazy comeback to say the least



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What sort of comeback is appropriate to the same tired cries lamented his non-selection, when it's been clear for awhile that he hasn't done what's been required of him in Farrell's view?

    Nothing to be said for another round of Kleyn bitching?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I think you'll find we prefer Frisch bitching nowadays.

    I don't get why you're getting so worked up by fans calling for an inform player to be internationally recognised. I disagree with Ulster fans saying to call up Balacoune and Cooney, but I don't go "God, why are they still banging on about Cooney and Balacoune? Ian Dowling and Tomàs O'Leary were far superior players anyways".



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    In fairness Ulster fans complain when their players DO get called up for Ireland squads.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Because there is squad number limitations, other players are just better in the eyes of the multiple title winning coach.

    It's not difficult to figure out.



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