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General Irish politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, we need to start processing application faster because the applicants are arriving faster than places can be found.

    Given that some applications have applied elsewhere, they should be sent back there.

    Those whose application is invalid should be dealt with quickly as they are blocking up the whole process and costing a fortune, let alone frustrating everyone associated with the process.

    The mention of the Navy was not serious, but they do need recruits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    A centralised Europe-wide system is needed. Fingerprint everybody applying, if that person has already applied elsewhere then it would be flagged immediately. There would probably be few first time applications in Ireland as most will have applied elsewhere before getting here. Ireland would likely have to commit to taking our fair share of approved applicants from elsewhere but at least they could be planned for in advance and wouldn't have to be housed prior to having their application determined.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    "We have to do it faster" is not a solution, it's a desired outcome. All of this takes resources, which we clearly do not have at the moment.

    Those whose applications are invalid are currently being dealt with as quickly as they can. No one is deliberately slowing things down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Pretty sure such a system already exists. Trouble it doesn't catch people who don't apply until they reach Ireland.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I cannot accept that decisions are taken quickly. They just are not. IP candidates are self selecting and just turn up. They can be from anywhere with any story. Some are valid and some are not.

    For a person to be granted IP they must comply with certain conditions. Many clearly do not ab initio, and should be rejected at first instance if there is prime facia evidence that they do not comply.

    The country cannot keep increasing the accommodation required, and the only solution is to make decisions on those already here.

    Remember, those who can claim IP include the whole of Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Gaza & West Bank, The Congo, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, plus many many other regions of the world where war is rampant. We cannot just allow them to overwhelm this state.

    Now if you add economic migrants, and every poor nation would be included.


    One of the vox pops of IP applicants said he needed advice on how to hire a lawyer - I think that says a lot as to what is going on.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I cannot accept that decisions are taken quickly.

    I never said they were taken quickly, I said they were taken as quickly as they can be. Nobody is deliberately delaying things, they are doing it as quickly as they can, with the resources available to them, under the current legal framework.

    Simply telling everyone to do it quicker will result in nothing other than further legal cases against the Irish state. We have some pretty obvious comparators in the country next door.

    Ultimately, what are all these cases that you think should be so easy to just dismiss out of hand?

    Also, literally anybody can claim IP, it does not automatically mean they will get it. Also, while the system needs to be more efficient to remove those not entitled to protection, 15,000 people a year are not going to "overwhelm the state" and we deal with far fewer applicants than most European countries.

    One of the vox pops of IP applicants said he needed advice on how to hire a lawyer - I think that says a lot as to what is going on.

    Potentially vulnerable people get legal protection shocker.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If you read my post I said that those who do not qualify ab initio and are a prime facia case of not complying with IP then they should be dealt with a straight rejection at first instance - not after months of investigation and certification.

    The IP applicant that was looking for a lawyer had not yet applied for IP status as I understood it. Vast amounts of money is involved in people smuggling.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If you read my post I said that those who do not qualify ab initio and are a prime facia case of not complying with IP then they should be dealt with a straight rejection at first instance - not after months of investigation and certification.

    And I would like to know what scenarios you think this covers.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Every case would be different but the salient facts will indicate a bogus application for some IP would bes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    With all the posters going up, I was wondering how parties decide on transfer pacts between candidates. I'm in Cork and at the European level it's obvious, we get posters for Paul Gavan but not Kathleen Funchion, we get posters for Billy Kelleher but not Cynthia ni Mhurchu, we get posters for that generic blueshirt who's name I can't remember and not Sean Kelly. All are obviously geographic in nature.

    But it's the local posters that have me wondering. FF and FG seem to have the approach vote me 1 and then continue your preferences for my colleagues in alphabetical order. But sinn fein have gone with a very specific numbered order.

    I was in the Cork City North West Ward and they have the following on their posters (3 candidates):

    • Mick Nugent's posters say vote Michelle Gould 2 and Kenneth Collins 3.
    • Michelle Gould's say vote Mick Nugent 2 and Kenneth Collins 3.
    • Kenneth Collins' say vote Mick Nugent 2 and Michelle Gould 3.

    So it seems that on that basis Kenneth Collins is getting somewhat shafted? Seems rather unfair, especially when you consider that both he and Mick Nugent are sitting councillors, but it was only Collins who won a seat in last election (Nugent was Co-opted to replace Thomas Gould who got elected to the dail. The same Thomas Gould who is married to Michelle Gould).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Should they get enough votes/transfers for 2 seats and not 3 having the bias towards one of the remaining candidates helps ensure they do actually get that second seat. There have been cases in the past where the remaining 2 candidates on a slate of 3 got an even portion of transfers and both got eliminated as a result, even though between them they had enough votes to get the second seat.

    It is trying to emulate a list PR system under STV. Yes it is in a sense unfair but there's a reason for doing it that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭dulpit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Collins is not necessarily "getting shafted"; he may have agreed to run in support of his colleagues. It's not that unusual in any of the major parties to run candidates intended to attract votes in the hope that they will transfer to more electable candidates. The candidates in question are entirely aware that this is the strategy, and are supportive of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    The only reason I thought he's being shafted is that he got elected in his own right and it's the person who replaced the sitting td in the area who seems to be first preference and the wife of the sitting td seems to be second.

    But sinn fein are strong in the northside of cork, could very well get all 3 elected anyway...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,283 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Mary Banotti RIP. A woman who did some service in her varied life:

    https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-banotti-tributes-6376994-May2024/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭colly10


    Anyone know where I can get the full list of candidates for the June 7th elections for Lucan?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,283 ✭✭✭✭Water John




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,421 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭blackwhite




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    When do they close? For some reason I thought it was the 12th.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭dulpit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,421 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yeah, its the 18th.

    Some people are leaving it later based on those SDCC lists - was only two candidates in one ward when I looked at the file dated last night earlier!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Wish I knew that a few years ago. I would never knowingly vote for anyone who leaves stuff to the last minute.. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭robwen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    That's a drop alright… is it a backlash against their new policy against open borders? Or because we're getting close to an election?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I wouldn't be reading too much into individual polls, would wait to see if the trend is backed up by upcoming polls. It's not a great look though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭pureza


    Don o'Laoghaire was on Claire Byrne the other morning asked how to stop migrants crossing the open border

    He dodged the question 4 or 5 times as if the instructions were on awkward questions is to Waffle on around it and waste up the airtime untill the presenter says 'ok we are out of time'

    The migrant crisis is a real achile's heel and Belfast don't know how to manage it and so far by being decisive and not changing his mind the new broom in FG is stealing a march on them ?

    Varadkar wouldnt have moved those tents or kicked backsides in departments,he was too soft



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think the Gov are moving from trying to find more hotels for migrants to making decisions quicker.

    If we have 20,000 IP applicants arriving so far this year, we need to have 20,000 decisions on IP this year as well. Those that can stay must get employment, and those that fail must leave - either on their own volition or be deported.

    We are even housing some who have been given the right to remain. That should stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,299 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    One of the issues that SF will have to address is the failure of the government in the North at preventing migrants entering there and travelling South.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Obviously SF don't have an open borders policy. No country should. The problem is that the amount of misinformation being spread by the far right (remember SF are left leaning) is hitting SF in the polls

    As soon as the live debates start that will all be turned on its head



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