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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Yeah they ain't from Gaza, i can promise you that :-) The gullible Irish authorities will believe anything.



  • Posts: 2,825 Brixton Sticky Owl


    The public have every right to know that information. It's central to all of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Sounds suspicious to me, where it's shared on ResearchGate, the publisher is listed as the lead authors website.

    Have you a link to where the University of Amsterdam have actually published this?

    You yourself shared it from the Authors website.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Geert von Instetten


    This information is included in the report which I presumed you had read parts of in rejecting the findings. The reason the University of Amsterdam branding is on the report is because it was published under the University of Amsterdam name as per the agreement with Statistics Netherlands. The Danish Government report has similar findings and the Danish Government has referenced this report as justification for its asylum policy. 


    https://fm.dk/media/25228/indvandreres-nettobidrag-til-de-offentlige-finanser-i-2018.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,760 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    What's happened here is that the fear of being labelled 'a racist' has rendered our infantile administrators incapable of making straightforward judgements on the eligibility of many of these completely bogus asylum 'seekers'.

    And in a perverse and absurd twist began to label all and sundry as racists and 'far right' when any attempt was made to highlight the obvious failings and weakness of the systems they oversaw.

    An administration entirely captive to and running in fear of an NGO sector funded by the same administration. It would actually make your head hurt



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Is Richard Tol not one of the authors? All the Irish journos were glad to hail him as an expert while he was here with the ESRI, before he returned to his native Holland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,249 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There was a guy on the news (presumably from an NGO) down by the canal and the tents saying refugees were "fleeing war and climate change".

    Climate change? So how is this addition to war actually assessed and quantified?

    Seems like bullsh!t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    I wouldn't think anything will happen.

    They're blithering idiots and have lost the crowd completely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    Leo and Coventry legged it.

    Both are responsible for this.

    Absolute dangerous cowards both of them. The very worst.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,760 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    climate change?

    sure what isn't justified by climate change at this stage?



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  • Posts: 121 [Deleted User]


    It's always been bullshit. For the past 25 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭pureza


    Its flowers like him and I see jenifer whitmore of the soc dems going oh my god we must protect these people that has us in this trouble

    They are economic feckin migrants that crossed half of safe Europe to get here and basically parasite off our country

    They should be kicked in the hole onto a plane to Rwanda 300 at a time,planes chartered from the Good Michael,no if's,no buts,show the UK how its done

    They're so blatant about it too,giving interviews on the news telling us they're from morocco and egypt etc

    No wars there and as for others,no war in any other country they crossed to get here



  • Posts: 295 [Deleted User]


    Infuriating when you break it down. Such incredible weakness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭willyvanilla


    Assuming everything is innocent, which is a big assumption, it genuinely is a difficult situation to solve.

    As soon as ypud build and fill a processing or holding centre, you'll have enough extra migrants on the streets to need a second centre, and then a third and fourth and...impossible.

    An oil rig, large boat? Same story, you'd fill one up, there'll be more to need a second, third, fourth...impossible.

    Construct an island in international waters, or buy a government contract in Mali, it'll fill up, and by the time it empties it'll be brimming and need to be expanded, ad infinitum...impossible.

    Now i know what im going to say will be construed as some kind of rabid glee, but it isnt.

    I just can't see any situation working other than a sheer inhospitable environment. I'm not exactly sure what that entails but handing out any amount of money or food or shelter is simply an even shittier version of the above, just encourages neverending bigger tent cities and so.

    The best comparison i can make is an unwanted housemate that simply wont leave of their own accord, what will probably happen is that life will be made so unaccommodating by others theyll choose to leave. Im sure more than a few people probably have experience of this from back in the day!

    Essentially, you need one of these migrants to go elsewhere, and when asked by other potential migrants about ireland they'll straight out say "ndont even try!"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,445 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    Harris to was very quick to conflate legal and illegal immigration to suit his view and call those with concerns ‘far right’. He’s equally culpable and must go as a result. Keeping McEntee and the last week’s performance should expedite this.



  • Posts: 2,825 Brixton Sticky Owl


    The more people that go on the news and declare themselves from Egypt, Morrocco, Jordan, Nigeria the more the anger of the public will rise.

    Roderic, Leo, Helen, et Al have been constantly telling us these are people fleeing war and persecution without a flinch. It's the case with some of them but not all as we are increasingly seeing sadly.

    I wouldn't be to hard on these young fellas either - on the other side of it they have likely been sold a dream for their family by some unscrupulous trafficker.

    And btw - this is a huge part of this. These traffickers are obviously saying in Ireland you'll get a house and money and everything else. All you have to do is say..... and there's a playbook. It could well be the case that there is facilitators on this side aswell that these lads will be beholden to.

    The state should be interrogating some of these fella right away to find out what they've been told Ireland holds for them.

    The jist of my message is, we need to get **** tough right away. All we've been doing in pussy footing around the whole thing to date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    You lot will try anything...

    From the translated version of the report, it seems the University of Amsterdam have tried to distance themselves utterly from this report.

    "Finally, we would like to thank the University of Amsterdam (UvA) who hosted us for our research
    project. Two of the researchers were seconded to the UvA. The UvA also advanced the costs of Statis-
    tics Netherlands (CBS) microdata for the Renaissance Institute. Unfortunately, the UvA did not react
    positively to the publication of the 1
    st edition. The UvA was of the opinion that we had wrongly used
    the UvA logo on the report, while this was the result of contractual obligations to publish ‘under own
    name’ – i.e. the name of the UvA – which the university itself had entered into with the CBS. Co-author
    professor emeritus Joop Hartog received an ultimatum at 9:30 p.m. on the day of publication: "If the
    [logo] is still there tomorrow at noon, I will request the personnel department to immediately termi-
    nate your hospitality [guest appointment]." The next day, the threat – after decades of loyal service to
    the UvA and a glorious academic career – was carried out. Joop Hartog was also deposed as chairman
    of a number of already planned PhD ceremonies. This very sordid affair even made it into the national
    press.10 In the end, the UvA was unable to present any valid arguments as to why the logo should not
    be on the cover of our report, and the withdrawal of Joop Hartog's guest appointment was reversed,
    but no public apologies were forthcoming. The whole affair underlines how sensitive the subject of
    study of this report still is and thus also the necessity of this report.
    Zeist, April 2023
    Jan van de Beek, Joop Hartog, Hans Roodenburg and Gerrit Kreffer"

    I very strongly doubt your claims about this Dutch government report, you obviously have a very particular relationship with the truth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    Your link . !!

    '' If a person indicates or is identified as being in need of international protection they are admitted to the international protection process. However, they will still be recorded as a refusal of leave to land. '' .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Geert von Instetten




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I suppose a Prime Time Investigates episode on this issue is out of the question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    An author of what report?

    Richard Toll isn't an author of the self published report shared on Gript.ie, Mankind Quarterly etc



  • Posts: 121 [Deleted User]


    @Ten of Swords seems like some posts have mysteriously disappeared. I hope there is not a technical problem?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭whatever.


    I agree to particular extents. When people say build more prisons to address more crime it solves the immediate problem but doesn't address the cause. Just like crime the best way to stop it is to ensure it doesn't pay, there is no benefit, no desire, no market, no customer, no reason.

    The cheapest and best way for society to address any propblem is to ensure it doesn't happen in the first place.

    In this situation we do need to build facilities but they should be located outside of the EEA no different than the facilities in Turkey for Greece and implicitly for Germany

    This is not a question of compassion, it is the of succession of common sense over chaos



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Geert von Instetten


    The University of Amsterdam absolutely attempted to disavow its involvement in the report, that is arguably indicative of the deteriorating social dialogue that led the Dutch Government to terminate economic reports on the relationship between immigration and economy in the first instance. Regardless, the findings of the report are consistent with a report published by the Danish Government and while you have commented on the report quite considerably, those comments have extended to the circumstances around the publication of the report only - have you any comments on the content of the report (appreciating that you obviously neglected to read the first few pages of the report until prompted to…) criticism of the methodology etc.?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Do you want to talk about the content of what gets self published on Dolores Cahill's website or maybe Gemma Doherty's?

    That's the level we're at here I'm afraid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Geert von Instetten


    I disagree, it is patently obvious that you failed to engage with the report at all before dismissing it. What were your doubtlessly illuminating thoughts on Danish Government report that reflects the findings of the Dutch report?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭whatever.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'd expect they will charge the terrorist activity, where it meets the legislation.

    I'd expect in time they'll have to modernise the legislation more in line with the US definition of domestic terrorism.

    the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that— (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;

    I don't know how you get from that, or our existing legislation to claiming that 'anyone who criticises the position on immigration can be charged'

    Care to explain?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    What Dutch government report is this? You shared something in Dutch, if you've an English language version I can comment on it, on its own merits.



This discussion has been closed.
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