Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100930#Comment_122100930

I'm sure the economics department of the University of Amsterdam will be surprised to learn that they are a couple of Dutch racists.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100817#Comment_122100817

I was using "peasant" as a rather tongue in cheek comparison with the "non elites" of today. You know, those who are ruled (governed) by their overlords, who pay taxes, work the land, keep the overlords demesne (economy) going, provide income for the overlord, do not question anything and obey the rules, all that stuff. Overlord or Lord of the Manor is the medieval equivalent of those in power today.

Have a look at "peasants in Medieval society", and take note of the peasant's revolt and the reasons for it in the 14th century too. History can repeat itself.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100898#Comment_122100898

The Danish model is designed to disincentivise economic migration and the secondary movement of migrants through policies of deterrence including increased thresholds for protection, reduced processing times, reduced protection time-limits, limited access to the labour market, limited access to welfare, increased use of detention, increased deportation, limited family reunification etc. The model is described as the Danish model because Denmark intentionally publicised the policy, deliberately advertising to migrants the limited provisions they would receive as asylum seekers in Denmark, that said, it is essentially used in multiple EU Member States and EEA members, including Sweden and Norway. For example, Sweden increased the threshold for protection by limiting leave to remain - a lesser form of protection - to children or families with children; Norway increased the threshold for protection by legislating for refusal of asylum and deportation based on the principle that there are ‘safe’ regions or provinces in an asylum seeker’s country of origin. Considering the Sunday Independent/ Ireland Thinks poll reported that 40% of those polled would favour replicating the Rwanda Policy, I expect a majority would favour adopting policies of deterrence.

willyvanilla

Welcome, make yourselves at home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3J11fbRXk

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100877#Comment_122100877

It seems up to October 2023 just under 1,000 people were refused leave to land and removed. So yes, to claim "practically none are deported or returned today" is simply wrong. I also can't actually find evidence to back up the claim that 3,700 peolle were refused leave to land and removed in 2011. In 2012 1,890 were refused entry to the state and removed. In 2010 3031 were refused leave to land, I can't get figures on how many were removed though. So 3,700 in the 2011 seems a huge anomaly.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-12-05/377/

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100914#Comment_122100914

Yep, That only applies to people who worked.. if you never worked everything is free 😡

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122099028#Comment_122099028

Ok I get it now, those figures aren't from the daily debate they're from your own calculations.

I do think we spend far too much on IPAs, resorting to using hotels is ridiculous, but par for the course with FFG, who I expect to see back in power after the GE but supported by some anti-immigration independent grouping.

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100776#Comment_122100776

Nobody thinks this at all. Where did you get that notion from ?

Keeps you relevant in this thread , I suppose.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100914#Comment_122100914

But I would need them?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100973#Comment_122100973

They didn't publish it or have anything to do with it, other than they employ one or more of the 'researchers' who self published it.

Same as UCD employed Dolores Cahill, remember her?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100814#Comment_122100814

The Tories will love getting their hands on these images as the week goes on and more people arrive.

Meanwhile our lot will be bumbling around clueless.

Patrick2010

lad on the news saying they came to Ireland for a better life and to get a house, no mention of fleeing war

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100958#Comment_122100958

Well I've yet to see anyone else review it other than the white supremacist journal founded by a nasty racist who used fake research to Irish people were a less intelligent group.

I should mention that Gript.ie referenced it too (hilarious) as well as some far-right french website.

I haven't seen the actual Dutch government report, feel free to share.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100920#Comment_122100920

Heard a snippet of Brendan O Connors show this morning, one female guest mentioned that back in 2021 Leo Varadkar issued a tweet in 13 (or was it 30?) languages including Georgian and Albanian inviting immigrants from around the world to Ireland with the promise that they'd have their own 'front door' within 4 months etc. etc. Could this be true or did I mishear ? ………….Was driving at the time with very noisy kids on board😉

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101024#Comment_122101024

It does not say anyone was actually removed, that dail answer is even weaker than the last

For deportation it specifically says "Numbers deported may relate to deportation orders issued" It does not state anywhere, actually removals from the state.

If I remember correctly Lucky Khambule from MASI had a deportation order issued against him and it was reaffirmed until he was given leave to remain.

Miss McEntee's use of deportation orders is obfuscation at best I suspect however it's outright deceit

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100927#Comment_122100927

You’re far left aren’t you.

mikethecop

In the last week I had the opportunity to meet and interact with a group of single adult males from Gaza who have been accommodated in Ireland ,

i was surprised to see that they were all well fed to hefty in appearance with designer clothes and shoes, each had one or two smart phones and made multiple video calls while i was with them.

makes me wonder who they are really and how they got here. what steps were taken to find out of they took part in the October 7th atrocity or other ones ? what they will do not that they are here.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100959#Comment_122100959

One of your 'anti-immigration' 😉😉 buddies posted the link from mankind quarterly.

On the Oireachtas figures, we are spending far too much on housing IPAs, using hotels is crazy.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100959#Comment_122100959

Also the content is f**king disgusting, have you looked at it?

There's a couple in the tents saying they are here from Morocco.

Surely the likes of that is a pisstake and the state have not given them 113 each a week.

Sure Ryanair have direct flights. Its a secular holiday destination and completely safe.

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101034#Comment_122101034

As you've not (can't) dispute(d) the figures as they are department supplied figures and instead have tried to change the subject I must assess that you have ceeded the fiscal impact point. You should recuse yourself from any other debate on this as it can only be assessed as vexatious

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101048#Comment_122101048

Why would you? A

"I also can't actually find evidence to back up the claim that 3,700 peolle were refused leave to land and removed in 2011"

Does a press release from the dept of justice not qualify as evidence? You know the one I've posted multiple times now in this thread?

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101073#Comment_122101073

The University of Amsterdam funded the report in as far as it provided the initial funds required to use the Statistics Netherlands data used in the report. In providing that funding, it signed a contract agreeing that the report would be published under the University of Amsterdam name. It appears as though it is less that you disagree with the methodology used in the report, than that you find the results inconvenient and are content to discredit it on that basis. I appreciate that the absence of a peer review would prompt scepticism but it remains that case that the only engagement you have had with the report is to dismiss it immediately on that basis ably. The findings of the report are consistent with the last Dutch Government commissioned report on the issue, Immigration and the Dutch Economy (2003) and with a Danish Government report on the issue. 

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101107#Comment_122101107

I have reviewed the Oireachtas content of course as I would any document I would present however your resort to denigrating the dail shows further vexatiousness. As I have stated before I must therefore assess that you have ceeded the fiscal impact point. It would be in everyone's interest if you therefore recused yourself

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101077#Comment_122101077

Close - it was Roderic O'Gorman who issued the tweets, which are still up as far as I'm aware.

Listened to a bit of the piece myself but turned it off after Brendan's rather panicky attempt to deflect from the perfectly valid points being raised, and then another guest's use of the Helen Lovejoy argument - these are people etc etc.

That's true, but their problems, and more accurately personal economic goals, are not our responsibility to solve. Attempting to circumvent our already poor immigration controls by presenting as asylum seekers or refugees but really just in search of better wages/benefits and housing displays a fundamental dishonesty and willingness to exploit our generosity and support that should - in my view - instantly disqualify them entirely.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101127#Comment_122101127

Nice try but not a hope.

If our government decided in the morning to privatise, say the police force, at enormous cost, it would take from the fact that we need a police force.

There will be an up front spend on IPAs, currently it's excessive, but the alternative is worse.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101064#Comment_122101064

I'd love to know the criteria for acceptance of an asylum seeker as a refugee. What threshold do they have to cross. I have a bad feeling it's just Carmel in the IPO office saying to herself "he seems nice", and that's it. Is it literally their acting skills in terms of the sob story they tell? Because all they have apart from that is their nationality that they claim to be.

The criteria should be in the public domain and whatever it is, that threshold for acceptance needs to be much much higher.

Then we need to abolish the "leave to remain" designation. There should only be two statuses - accepted as genuine refugee or rejected and deported immediately.

Do those two things and the numbers coming will plummet.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101129#Comment_122101129

If I get put on temporary layoff I need my credits from prsi to claim jobseekers benefit. I know the dole or Jobseeker’s Allowance as it’s officially called is different but you don’t qualify for that straight away. Not sure on what you do need to be to qualify for it.

ooter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101077#Comment_122101077

It is true but it was o'gorman who tweeted it not varadkar.

Haven't got the foreign language tweets but this is it in good old bearla.

https://twitter.com/rodericogorman/status/1365226300932304896?t=Kxu_Ds8H3-jZ06ucp8nakw&s=19