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Rent increase query

  • 01-05-2024 11:16PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,003 ✭✭✭


    Hi, my landlord has told me today that he wants to increase the rent. He says the rent no longer covers the mortgage on the property. I’m here just over a year. RTB registered tenancy and on HAP. Has anyone any links to where I can read what my rights are. My guess is that he will sell if he can’t cover the mortgage. Just want to be aware of all the facts. Thanks In advance.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Here is a good starting point:

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting-a-home/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities/tenants-rights-and-obligations/

    And here - with some useful contact numbers where you can provide your exact circumstances and get some guidance as well as a list of FAQ's including rent increases:

    https://threshold.ie/get-help/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    There is no god given right for rent to cover a mortgage.

    If he is subject to restrictions on raising the rent, moaning about the mortgage doesn't give him immunity to those restrictions. He can sell, but he has to give you the minimum notice ….. and he has to actually sell



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,003 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Thank you both. I’ll call and ask for advice tomorrow. I’ve a notion he might sell if he doesn’t cover the mortgage. My place is the only rental he owns so he may not be too versed in the way things are done and proper procedure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    If the landlord wants to sell you are entitled to six months notice. You can drag it out through the rtb but once the decision is made to sell the clock starts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,178 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    "He says the rent no longer covers the mortgage on the property."
    - Just a heads up to you OP, stating this is generally a pretty clear indication that your landlord is very amateurish OR just a bad landlord. A landlords costs (mortgage, tax, insurance, etc) are so individual to them that they should have no bearing on the rent. Tell him "extend the term, lower your payment, drop the rent?" (just kidding).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,003 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Thanks guys, yes my flat is the only property he owns that he rents out.



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  • Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And a pretty clear indication that the op will be on the lookout for a new, and most likely more expensive place to live in the near future.

    At the moment all the op has is an indication that a rent increase is coming, with no basis to assume that it will be anything other than lawful. So maybe the op can let us know when he/she receives the notice.

    You call him amateurish/a bad landlord, it’s not clear why you would assume that. It’s no secret that LLs are selling because property prices are high, mortgage rates/costs have risen and legislation is restrictive, giving your tenant the heads up that he/LL doesn’t want to have to pay his own money into the mortgage when this an opportune time to sell is hardly bad behaviour, at least the the op can now keep an eye out for another property if one become available.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    A rental investment does not need to cover the mortgage to be profitable, only the mortgage interest payments.

    If the rent has been covering the mortgage before now, it means the OPs landlord was getting a free house paid for by the OP. No other investment comes close to that level of return. It is pure price gouging.

    Professional landlords (as opposed to amateurs) will seek a rental yield that covers the cost of capital (interest on mortgage) + some extra % for risk and effort involved. They would not seek or hope to achieve the entire capital repayments being covered by rent.

    OP your landlord is a cowboy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    You call him amateurish/a bad landlord, it’s not clear why you would assume that.

    Possibly because he is whinging about the rent not covering his mortgage ………… I know plenty of amateur entitled-types feel that they deserves someone to pay them enough to pay all their expenses, taxes, interest and mortgage capital repayments and to have spending money left over as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    OP, wait for the landlord to come back to you with their proposal for a rent increase, if you are in an RTB, the most it can be increased is 2% per year. If it is not in an RTB, they cannot increase the rent until you have been in the property 2 years, then they can bring it to market level, if they choose.

    The landlords bills are not your problem any more than your bills are their problem, but since they have only one property, the relationship between landlord and tenant can be different, oftentimes much better than with a professional landlord.

    There is lots of bad advice given above , ignore that, as you could see if you read their other posts, they are completely anti-landlord- all landlords bad, all tenants good. They seem to have a serious chip on their shoulder and get joy from seeing landlords in such dire straits that they need to sell their property. This has absolutely no benefit to tenants, and definitely is of no benefit to you. If it were me, I would see what the landlord says, then keep the lines of communication open and friendly, going in with your chest out, as has been suggested above, will definitely make the landlord want to sell and be done with it, especially if he is paying extra money to cover the mortgage.

    Personally, I would not be buying any property that did not cover the mortgage and expenses from the rent, considering that I would have had to put in a deposit and risk losing the property and the risk of bad tenants, which could costs me many nights of lost sleep and tens of thousands of euro in lost rent and repairs.

    Ye are both human, and both adults, hope it works out well for both of you.



  • Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The op hasn’t received the rental increase yet, and you have no idea of the LLs financial situation, yet there you go, jumping to conclusions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭shimadzu


    Unfortunately increased costs will generally be passed onto the end user. The important question for you is when was the rent last increased. The landlord can increase the rent at up to 2% per year since the last increase. So that could be anywhere between 2-16%. Have a look on the RTB website there is a guide as to how the rent review should be performed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,397 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the OP could potentially ask that if their rent is index linked to interest rates; i.e. how much the LL is paying in repayments; will the landlord drop the rent if interest rates fall?

    (not seriously suggesting this per se, just pointing out that with the information we have at hand, the LL has effectively told them the rent is linked to interest rates).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    OP you say that you receive hap.

    I wonder could you consider approaching your local authority about purchasing it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    This is not addressed at the OP

    From the limited information provided and the opinion of the OP, its a major stretch for to say/state the landlord is a cowboy.

    For a start you don't know what the current rent is, or when it was last reviewed. Any landlord, good or as you may say, 'cowboy', has a right to review rents within the existing legislation, which is very restrictive on what is allowed. It is also interesting that landlords generally get labelled 'cowboys' or 'gougers' when they try increase their rent within permitted limits.

    For the record, the so called professional (institutional) landlords you refer to are in most cases charging massive rents, way higher than most as you call them 'bad' or 'amateur' landlords. These 'professionals' will also seek to review rents within the legislation, which in your eyes /logic will immediately make them 'cowboys'.

    What they are charging has nothing to do with the cost of capital or the risk. It is pure capitalism, where they charge the highest price the market will accept.

    Finally no other business, as property letting is, has more restrictions on its operation. It's not wrong to want to make a profit or even cover cost (capital cost excluded). Many are not. This is a key reason many private landlords, who have been nothing other than good, fair and professional in their dealings with tenants, are selling up.

    The effect of this is fewer rental properties and higher rents charged by the institutional landlords.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The opinion that the received rent from an asset must cover the mortgage payments entirely or else you need to up the rent charged is pure cowboy logic. The tenant in this instance is giving the landlord a house for free - landlord only has to stump up enough deposit to get a mortgage, then the tenant pays the rest of the way.

    It is completely unrealistic view of an investment. You are still making profit so long as your received rent covers mortgage interest (not full mortgage payment) and any depreciation of the asset (house prices are still rising so depreciation is negligible)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,852 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    How is the tenant giving the landlord a house for free though? The tenant is paying to live in the property. The landlord, as part of the deal, looks after the upkeep on the property, management fees and all the rest. Where is the 'free' in any of the above?

    The received rent doesn't 'have to' cover the mortgage on the asset, of course not. However if it doesn't, then it's can start to become disadvantageous to the landlord and it might be better for them to sell. That's fairly simple logic.

    I do agree though that landlords shouldn't be, by default, passing on mortgage interest increases on their property to tenants. That's hugely unfair and punishing to tenants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    @timmyntc

    Your view is over simplistic. I will leave it at that.



  • Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh dear.

    If the LL can’t afford now to pay the mortgage, he is most likely going to sell. What the profits on investment are in the long term, doesn’t matter so much in the short term if you fall into arrears.

    Clearly you have more information about the LLs finances than the rest of us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,003 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Thanks for all the input. I’m in the flat less than 24 months. From talking to local people though. A lot of properties are being sold from under tenants at this time. Or when the time comes to review rent landlords are coming up with astronomical increases and the tenant still has to find somewhere else which is not easy at the moment either. My landlord is a reasonable enough man. There is nothing similar on the market for similar rents locally. I don’t really know what’s to be done. Need a long think anyway and try and figure something out. I don’t live in a rent controlled area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    The landlord would still need to give you official notice of a rent increase for it to be valid. Telling you he wants to increase it is not a valid increase notification.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,003 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Yes I understand that. I have to be there 24 months and he has to give 90 days proper notice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I was going to ask if you were in a rent control area. As you are, it changes things more towards the landlord and what the increase can be. It needs to be given in writing. Are you able to get your HAP increased?

    Hopefully you can work something out. Best of luck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Post #21, the OP says they are not in a controlled area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    The LL wants more money to pay increased expenses on his side. This may or may not be legal - the legality won’t affect the tenant much in my opinion.

    Your choice (tenant) is to pay the increase or not.
    If you do not wish to pay you’ll end up looking for a new place to live. The landlord will sell up. Are you likely to get somewhere cheaper than the proposed rental increase at your current property?
    Get all the information and make the least worst decision for you.

    Remember you can haggle with your current landlord. You won’t have that option in the open market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Not that it's any help to OP here, but:

    If the landlord cannot afford the mortgage payments without having the tenant cover them entirely, they should not be a landlord.

    Right now the OP is close to paying an entire mortgage on a property (HAP covering some) but their landlord is benefiting from the ownership with almost nothing put into it themselves except the deposit for mortgage.

    OP make sure your landlord gives you proper written notice of everything from rent increase to any possible eviction in future if it arises. If proper notice isn't given then their request is invalid, and you would have a strong case at the RTB. Don't be afraid to stand up for your rights



  • Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is he going to pass on any reductions in the mortgage if (and this is quite likely) interest rates fall in the next year or 2? If he's locked into a high fixed rate for the next few years then OP is paying for the LL's speculation on interest rates not falling.

    Though if it's a modest rise you might be better off coming to some sort of an agreement if you are in a good living situation bar that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    What is the bad advice? Or are you just continuing to project a victim mentality for no reason?

    no need for the hysteric dramatics about "landlords in such dire straights that they need to sell the property". The OP only said the landlord was moaning that (due to the landlords own bad management) the rent no longer covers their interest an capital repayments. One shouldn't be in any business if they don't have the financial capacity, or planning wherewithal, to be able to ride out minor bumps. There are a lot of the entitled handout brigade out there though that they are too special for normal common sense to apply to them. They have to be able to manage their cashflow



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Clearly you have more information about the LLs finances than the rest of us.

    The irony of saying that when the OP never gave any indication that "the LL can’t afford now to pay the mortgage". It only said the landlord complained that the rent was no longer covering the mortgage repayments - not that the landlord can't afford it



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