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Will dispute and settlement talks

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭lateron


    I have seen the wills. Because he disputed the will, this has delayed everything. He was the one threatening court and now he wants talks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭csirl


    Remember that its ok to walk away from settlement talks if you dont like the outcome. Also remember that the 2 sets of lawyers dont represent you - they represent the estate and your brother.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The estate solicitor wants this settled. So I don't trust that they have my best interests at heart.

    They shouldn't have your interests at heart. Nor should they have the interests of your siblings at heart. They should have your parents interests at heart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,113 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You need to start thinking of you and your sisters as a single entity, as you appear to have idential interests and stakes. So if you engage a solicitor, all three of you need to do it and agree to split the cost, otherwise your sisters can sit back while you engage a solicitor and pay the bills while they gain the benefit without the expense.

    Again, without engaging services, I would first ask a solicitor if the estate solicitor is telling the truth about talks being a proscribed requirement you should or need to be engaging with.

    If one of the beneficiaries of the will I administered had challenged the will and lost, I would have deducted the estate legal costs from their share of the disbursement. I see no reason why other benneficiaries should have had their disbursements reduced because another picked a legal fight that failed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭lateron


    Thank you for your advice. I will be going in to represent myself and will take any emotion out of it. I have learned to walk away from things if they are of no purpose to me and will keep this in mind tomorrow.

    The last poster said that the solicitor should have my parents interst at heart and that is so right as they knew what they wanted for us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭lateron


    As a result of the dispute one sister initially sided with my brother. She now has seen through him and they don't speak , but the hurt and betrayal she caused is still there and I won't engage with her.

    I wish things were different but I have had to mind myself over all this.

    I do believe that my mother has helped me and my sisters in all of this. She knew he was a thief and bully and had this in her hospital notes. It paints him in a bad light in front of any judge. So I believe he will settle and agree to our terms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭Ted222


    This has been allowed to become complicated. It needs to be simplified.

    1. Your parents left the estate to be split 4 ways. There has been no legal challenge to this and no reason therefore why the executor cannot discharge the will as written .
    2. The executor has been asleep at the wheel and hasn’t fulfilled their responsibilities.
    3. There is no need for you to engage in settlement talks or any other process. Your entitlement to get a quarter of the value of the estate is watertight.
    4. The solicitors involved so far are not working for you. You may need a solicitor of your own to light a fire under the executor. Payment for a solicitor could ultimately come from the estate.

    I found this on the internet which may be of some help.

    https://www.gibsonandassociates.ie/blog/probate/#:~:text=However%2C%20if%20the%20process%20does,the%20testator's%20date%20of%20death.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I will be going in to represent myself

    With no disrespect intended, you don't seem to have the legal nous needed for this.

    Get a solicitor to represent you (or preferably you and your sisters)interests in the outcome . However, I do think one of the first questions your solicitor should ask you is WTF is this meeting about and why is the estate enrertaing your brothers threats?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭jackboy


    You are not going to get advice from a solicitor at that short notice. You can’t know what will happen at the meeting but if the two barristers decide to do a deal then it will be up to you to accept or challenge. Challenge will mean solicitors and money.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,499 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    There may be a different perspective which we are not seeing. That wouldn't be that unusual. His claims might well be completely fabricated, but might be plausible enough to constitute potential trouble.

    Perhaps he even just wants to hang onto the land or something. i.e. instead of everything being sold and split 4 ways, he might be trying to keep the land together. Maybe he'd be happy to keep the land, allow the house to be sold, and buy the others out of whatever residual they'd have in the land.

    As for the claims that the man might be "making a living" off of 30 acres ………… not likely unless he is doing something very intensive on it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Whatever the brother wants to do is largely irrelevant because it needs to be agreed with the estate and with the siblings.

    As for any income from the land, this needs to be properly accounted for (profits or losses). The brother appears to have no permission to be farming it so the executor needs to account for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,499 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Whatever the brother wants to do is largely irrelevant because it needs to be agreed with the estate and with the siblings.

    Hence perhaps the desire for negotiation and settlement. He may just want his share in the form of the land whereas the others might just want it all sold and the proceeds split.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Exactly. To me it looks like the brother and the executor are about to do a deal. The sisters have not been involved for seven years so there may be an attempt to steamroll them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,499 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I can't tell you that. We can only go on the OP's details of the parties falling out and not being on speaking terms. It has been going on a while and there might unfortunately be some bitterness there. It would be unlikely that the house would be worth 3X the land value. It could be, but probably not. So unless there was sufficient other assets to being the non-land percentage up to 75% there could also be arguments there as regards valuations.

    He might also be pushing for - as I mentioned - some form of claim to the land under a proprietary estoppel too. It might not be that strong, but maybe he's trying to use that as a lever. And wants legal representation there to add weight to that.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    That's the impression I'm getting and I'd say that the OP and their sisters will lose out considerably. It all goes back to the need for the OP and their sisters to have their own legal representation who will be able to tell them if this meeting is even appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,514 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    @lateron Walk the lands between now and the meeting. Have anecdotes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,499 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    The brother and the executor can't just "unilaterally" "do a deal", particularly an unfair one. The executor would be leaving themselves wide open under such a scenario.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I've seen an executor trying to favour a direct relation (who had no claim in the most recent will) and they also wanted to avoid payment of taxes due. They were threatened with High Court action if they didn't stand down (which they did).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Of course the sisters would need to decide if they would accept the deal or challenge it. The executor would not be impacted as he is getting nothing from the estate. Legal bills will be taken from the estate. If the sisters challenge, the executor could just park the whole lot unless the sisters get solicitors and actively try to progress things. Hard to see if they do not get on together.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    You need to be wary of barristers, they are a cosy club, they might not let on but they will be working on the same side previously etc,,deals done to ensure their own income, communications you are not aware of,this will sounds straight forward,,he hasn't a case ,this " negotiation" is a money spinner for the legal teams,, you may think he is going to pay fees but eventually it will all come out of the estate,, honestly try to communicate with him yourself, people don't see the woods for the trees in these disputes and the estate could become a legal teams benefit if there's no compromise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭lateron


    I did last week and took videos. He has over 20 calves with no tags. I believe this is so they won't show up in the herd number to be added into the estate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭lateron


    I have been heavily involved from the beginning. I have pushed back at the executor so much, she did not listen. I have advised her that we are considering a legal challenge to her for how the property has devalued under her care.

    I won't agree to any deal that benefits him more than me. I do think this is a plot to bankrupt the estate so there will be nothing for anyone except legal teams.

    I am prepared for that as all along I have said a quarter of nothing is nothing. I just feel that in life he disrespected our parents and still doing it when they are gone. If he takes it to court the judge will decide and I do know he won't want that now considering how the medical notes will make him look.

    It is such a shame that this is the way it has gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,952 ✭✭✭✭whelan2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    @lateron - Please take this bit of advice.

    Postpone the meeting tomorrow(Your Sick if asked), engage a reputable solicitor and take their advice.

    You need help and someone working in your interests. Like someone else said, get your sisters in on the new solicitor but do not delay. Engage one tomorrow. They should not cost that much and you will get clarity at the very least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    Is there a court case in the High Court? Have you anything in writing from the Estate Solicitor? Why the need for barristers if it’s a straight forward Will? Presumably Probate has already been granted?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭Ted222


    Fully agree. Postpone and take independent legal advice. None of the players on the pitch tomorrow are on your side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,499 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Not sure if you misunderstood. The executor would indeed be impacted if he did something incorrect/illegal as they would be liable for that.

    The claim made above was that the executor and the brother might be going to "do a deal" etc. The executor does not have the power to unilaterally make any "deals" with one of the beneficiaries, contrary to the will, to the detriment of the other beneficiaries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    OP, you have gotten some really good advice above.

    Bottom line: it appears on the face of it that the Executor has failed in their duty to protect the value of the estate, and they are personally liable for that failure. So everything they do will be to protect themselves against that liability. From their perspective the simplest solution is some sort of agreement that applies - in part - retrospectively.

    The best advice above is get your own solicitor, someone who knows land inheritance but not someone from your town or linked to the estate's solicitor. You'll have to pay them yourself, and it won't be cheap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭endofrainbow


    Please seek legal advice unless you are fully qualified.

    'Anyone who represents themselves legally, has a fool for a client '. Can't recall where I heard this but it makes sense.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    You need to stop thinking for the judiciary because you don’t understand their line of thinking! The case will be purely about the will and the law, he is not on trial and the notes on his behavior probably won’t even be considered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Unless your brother has filed a case in the high court to dispute the will I'd also be questioning why the executor has engaged the services of a barrister and who has authorised it.

    Combined with their failure to execute the terms of the will over a seven year period (assuming your brother hasn't filed a case in the High Court), I'd be seriously considering if the executor has failed in their duty.

    I'd be considering independent legal advice on any unnecessary costs claimed by the executor and whether there are solid grounds for negligence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 mammychicken


    OP if you are not happy with the Executor's failure to administer the Estate then I would urge you, very strongly, to report this to the Law Society, particularly if you attend "settlement talks" and are not satisfied with the outcome. Seems to me the property should be put on the market and net proceeds of sale together with all other income of the estate divided equally between the four siblings. If your brother wants the farm, he can buy it from the estate unless he is outbid.



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