Will dispute and settlement talks

lateron

My parents passed away and left a will dividing their whole estate among 4 children. House and 30acre farm. 3 girls, 1 boy.

The boy disputed the will and said that he was pro used the land. He has no proof of this and was asked to show this in discovery documents. He does not have any receipts to show he did anything with the farm when parents were alive.

Mothers medical notes to the social worker and psychologist state 'she was being bullied by her son' lots more details but I won't go in to it.

Over the last 7 years he refused settlement talks. Now that he has seen this information he wants settlement talks.

Have any of you been through settlement talks. Will I get anything near my quarter?

Should he have to pay his own costs?

Not sure what to expect from these talks.

I do not have my own solicitor. The estate solicitor has been very helpful.

Thanks

Ted222

Forgive my ignorance but why are settlement talks even necessary?

The executor has an obligation to discharge the will in accordance with your parents’ wishes. Now that the son has seen the information, surely the path is clear to revert to the original terms of the will and split things four ways.

It’s what you’re entitled to and I wouldn’t settle for anything less. He’s messed you around for seven years already. He should also cover any costs that wouldn’t have arisen if he hadn’t dragged things out.

I think the executor should have been a bit more proactive in settling matters rather than allowing things drag out this length.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072509#Comment_122072509

He had threatened court action as he was saying he was promised the farm. He can not prove this and thankfully there is reference to this on my mother hospital notes.

He obviously wants the farm. He will try to twist everything around to his way. Thing is he doesn't have money to buy us out.

I want to settle and get this over and done with. But not sure what to agree to in talks. I am adamant that he pays his own legal costs as I don't believe he would win in court.

If he wants the farm he also needs my father's herd number. Can I put a monetary value on that?.

This is so unsettling for me as I am usually up to date with things and read up on them. There is nothing online to advise me on settlement talks. I can not afford a solicitor.

Anyone know how far I can push things.

Ted222

It’s one thing threatening legal action and another thing actually going through with it.

I’d question what the executor’s role has been. In the absence of any legal challenge (rather than the threat of one), this should really have been discharged years ago.

I know it’s not my business but if I was you, I wouldn’t bother with settlement talks. Why should you if the will is clear? Settlement implies you’re willing to concede on your entitlement. Why should you?

I would simply lean on the executor to discharge the will as they’re legally obligated to do. Seven years, when there’s no legal challenge, is taking the mickey.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072523#Comment_122072523

There is nothing to discuss or settle. The deceased have made their wishes known very clearly and if this person is not satisfied then it is entirely up to them to engage a solicitor and challenge the will. For your part you, you need to stand up for yourself and respect your parents wishes - tell the solicitor you won’t be going to any such talks and that you expect him to carry out the term of the will as he is legally required to do. And then just disengage and leave it to this clown to do whatever he is going to do because he will never be satisfied.

lateron

Thank you. I will have to attend on Monday anyway. But I will mention this to the barrister for the estate when I meet him.

The executor is a lady who works in the solicitors office. She is more than useless and has allowed the estate to devalue.

It is really good to get an opinion from someone that is not involved or knows them.

For my brother to want talks after 7 years shows that my mothers hospital notes has made him nervous. (he only received these notes recently). This shows that he is afraid to go to court.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072630#Comment_122072630

It is so good to get someone else's perspective on this.

I have been questioning myself all week. At the end of the day he stole from and bullied my parents. Their wills are very clear. They wanted it divided 4 ways.

One thing I am adamant on is that he will have to pay his costs. I will also get money for the herd number as he does not have one.

If I do not show up for settlement talks it does not look good in my favour if he does take it to court.

I am in a really strong position.

Thank you for commenting. We take strength from those around us, even online.

Ted222

Whoever advised you to consider settlement talks is not acting in your best interests. It sounds like a very straightforward will that should have been discharged years ago.

sundodger5

As far as i know the executor would be liable if the estate has devalued due to not being dealt with promptly. Keep that in mind if further delays are thrown at you.

It would be a useful card to throw down if needed.

I would be holding out for the will to be dealt with as written.

Oscar_Madison

So I’m going to assume that you and your two sisters are at one with this, yes?
Then I think the 3 of you need to visit a solicitor and tell your story- they will be able to advise . I especially recommend this if there’s even a hint of a court challenge.

In terms of legal costs, it’s again something you need to enquire about- in the past, if some party disrupted the will, the tendency was for the costs to come out of the estate- that doesn’t necessarily happen anymore - and from what you’re saying, it looks like your brother doesn’t have a leg to stand on so he’s now trying for second best- “settlement” - a solicitor would be able to advise but my gut (and it’s only my opinion based on what you’ve said) - is that he’s completely bluffing - you can bet your bottom dollar he has received legal advice - you need to get that too from an independent solicitor.

As others have said you need to start asserting yourself more and get your sisters to start speaking as one voice - he’ll soon change his tune I guarantee you.

In terms of solicitors costs, you may end up agreeing on payment method - you may not have to pay straight away - just speak to one first and explore from there.
The length of time from death to execution of the will is very long too - a solicitor will be able to help in terms of moving this along -

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072509#Comment_122072509

He has tried all sorts, tried to get the executor changed in the beginning. He was not successful with that.

The talks are because he has threatened legal action. He has looked for them.

You are right. I will go to the talks and will only settle for my quarter and he is to pay his costs.

I spoke to the valuer for the estate and he has valued the farm higher than what it is and the house lower. I do have people on my side as they see what he has done.

I am going to have notes written up for myself and make those valid points when I see the executor tomorrow ( this is my only chance to see her as she ignores any communication from me.)

And if it goes to court he will be seen for the liar he is.

csirl

If he wants to go into farming let him get his own herd number.

Iodine1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072642#Comment_122072642

There is no value in the herd number, anyone can get one from the Dept once you fill the terms ie have access to land and animal handling facilities. What there is value in, is the "entitlements" which are linked to the land and generate some income to the owner annually and they can be bought and sold by agri advisors / consultants. In this case they could be lost if not used for 3 years (I think) or they could have already been transferred.

You definitely need advice and it may not be as expensive as you think, but without it you could end up losing alot.

FishOnABike

Your brother should be entirely responsible for his own legal costs.

The main questions I would have in any 'settlement' is whether any additional executor costs and devaluation of the estate should also be bourne in full by him, after all it is his actions which are the root cause of those additional costs.

I'd suggest him being responsible for his own legal costs and any additional legal costs of the executor and devaluation of the estate are taken from his share of the estate should be a starting point for any 'settlement' talks.

If he walks away with his 1/4 share and paying his own legal costs he will have done well in my view.

Gullivers Travels

Yet another family at odds over a will. Unfortunately bitter disputes evolve around wills and the break down of assets. Families taking sides and never speaking to each other again.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072706#Comment_122072706

You are right another family at odds. However, your comment is not assisting me in any way.

Please do add if you have something helpful to recommend.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072716#Comment_122072716

Am I right that your executor is not a family member? Just wondering why that person was made executor? If it is someone that is getting nothing from the estate it could explain why they are not proactive and letting things drag out.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072723#Comment_122072723

The executor is not a family member. She was a law clerk in the solicitors office and was executor for several wills.

The delay is due to my brother sending letters etc to say he was taking legal action.

It has take way too long. I would love to have it over and done with and get something from the estate.

csirl

If your brothet has been sending letters for 7 years, threatening legal action and NOT actually taking legal action, then maybe he has no intention to do so.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072804#Comment_122072804

Just remember it is likely legal bills are building up in the background, seven years of them. A large chunk of the estate may be lost anyway to pay this off.

DBB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072690#Comment_122072690

This is an important consideration OP, the entitlements linked to your father's herd number. Who has been farming the land since your parents passed? If it's your brother, is it possible that the herd number and/or entitlements were transferred over to him prior to your parents' passing?

This seems unlikely, given he can't produce any proof of having farmed the land before, and in the absence of a previous transfer, and if he hasn't been farming the land since, it surely weakens his case further.

cnocbui

Ask the executor when they are likely to execute the will. They shouldn't be paying attention to unsubstantiated haranguing letters based on alleged hearsay. Let your brother take legal action if he wants, but it's likely a bluff. I wouldn't agree to settlement talks, which sounds like it would just be a shouting match where your brother tries to strong-arm the other 3 beneficiaries into agreeing to gift him their shares.

Really, it's between your brother and the executor. If he takes legal action it will be between him and the executor. I don't see why you or your sisters should be worried about legal costs as it's not your fight.

I do wonder whether it shouldn't be appropriate for the executor to deduct their legal costs in fighting a challenge from a benneficiary, from their share of the estate.

Victor

You should have someone with you who knows how to negotiate.

The most important things are knowing what you want, what you and others are entitled to and what you are willing to give up to settle. Write these things down.

suvigirl

The brother hasn't even started legal proceedings and he wants ye to settle with him? He has a neck like you know what!

Get the executor to start doing her duty and let him off to start proceedings.....

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073007#Comment_122073007

Thank you so much. I felt worn down by all this and now I feel I am back to fight for what my parents wanted.

I will let this go to court if it has to. I have always said quarter of nothing is nothing. I have nothing to loose.. I have to stand up for my right.

Thank you

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072814#Comment_122072814

He has delayed in every way possible. These talks are only going ahead now because I believe he is backed into a corner. Based on my mother's hospital notes alone he will be shown to be a bully and thief. He has not put in papers to the court only hundreds of solicitors letters. I am adamant that he will be paying all the costs, his and his executor.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073085#Comment_122073085

I have to stand up for my right.

Until now, you and your sisters haven't been doing this. Your brother needs to be politely told to sit down and shut up or take it to court but this carry on with threats is benefitting nobody but the solicitors.

If your brother wants the farm then he can borrow from a bank and buy you out (presumably at market value) but he has no more right to it than you or your sisters.

lateron

My brother has Ben farming and using my late father's herd number. I have sent numerous letters to the executor regarding this. He has benefitted by selling my father's herd and pocketing the money and more then likely receiving the grants each year.

He does not have a qualification to have his own herd number so he really needs my father's of he wants to farm. That is why I am going to put a monetary value on it. I know that might sound harsh but he can't have it all his own way.

lateron

The talks are due tomorrow. I won't be in a room with anyone. The two barristers will speak to each party independently. My sisters are the same. They want the will as laid down by my parents, which is equal.

Donald Trump

The fact that "he does not have proof of this" in relation to a specific promise would not necessarily be fatal to a claim in proprietary estoppel for such scenarios. But he would need proof of other factors too. Based on what you have outlined, it wouldn't seem likely to succeed. But you'd need to talk to a solicitor and tell them all the details. Don't put too much weight on random internetters.

What you have going for you in your favour is that he is an equal beneficiary under the same will. So whatever he burns through in legal fees will hurt him as much as the other parties.

lateron

I have asked the solicitor for the estate for figures, e.g the value of farm and house, cattle at date of father's passing, amount for farm grants since he passed. I have not recieved them. If I don't have them by 10am I am going to cancel myself.

I do want them to go ahead as I want to see what is on offer. I do know I can refuse and he can either take us to court or the executor has to execute the will.

I will let ye all know how I get on

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073095#Comment_122073095

It's not his executor. Be very careful here. I hope you have been keeping track of the legal bills. As I have said before, there could be serious bills building up in the background. If there are more disputes about who should pay these then this could go on for years yet, further eating into the estate.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073112#Comment_122073112

Who arranged the talks? Given that your brother has no legal right to the estate above you and your sisters, what are the talks about? Did the executor hire a barrister and for what purpose?

blackbox

As far as I know, any profits that your brother made from the farm since your parent died should be included in the estate and divided according to the will.

lateron

I'd say the solicitors will have more out of this than me.. I would like to see this finished. Somehow knowing my brother it will not be straightforward 🙄

Seth Brundle

Also if your brother has been farming the place since your parents passed away, was this done with the support of the executor? Has the executor shared bank accounts with your brother so he can buy feed, fertiliser, vet bills and so on

lateron

Thank you. This is another thing to add to my list. Alot of things people have said today make so much sense. Thank you

lateron

Thank you. Pen and paper on hand at the minute and working on my list for consideration.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073142#Comment_122073142

He was not given permission to farm the land by the executor. Executor has fallen down on this as she has not looked for accounts, department of Agriculture records etc.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072652#Comment_122072652

This comment has really made me think. The solicitor for the estate of course wants this finished so she can get her money (rightly so).

She will not be putting my best interests at heart. I can only do that.

lateron

My plan will be to get my quarter and for him to pay his legal fees and that of the executor. He will have to put money where his mouth is.

In the real world this may not be realistic.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073225#Comment_122073225

The executors role is to manage the estate until it is divided up. The executor can appoint someone to manage the farm which would include collecting grants, etc. Are you telling us that they did not do this and effectively just left the farm to rot?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072642#Comment_122072642

Nope you have the wrong perspective completely! As I said there is nothing to discuss or settle so why would you engage with them? By your logic that would suggest to a court that there is something to settle!!!!

If your brother decides to challenge the will, I'd imagine he would be required by his legal team to make an advanced payment of several thousand - does he have the money for this? If he wins the case the then then his expenses will be paid out of the estate, if not he carry's the cost. But at no stage should his challenging the will require you to personally pay any legal fees.

I will also get money for the herd number as he does not have one.

This statement concerns me, because you should not be receiving any payments for stock that you do not own as required by the subsidy rules. If the estate owns stock and is entitled to subsidies, then that money must be paid into the estate etc…. Obtaining money by deception is fraud - a criminal offense. And if this escalates it could be come very dirty.

csirl

Some thoughts:

1. Your siblings dont seem to be as motivated as you to get this settled? Its hard to imagine this dragging out for so long if most beneficiaries were putring pressure on the executor. Remember that its not majority rules. You are entitled to your full inheritance in a timely manner regardless of what the other beneficiaries agree, do etc.

2. From what you are saying, it appears that he's earning a living out of the farm. Plenty of incentive for him to drag things out for another few years even if he doesnt ultimately own the farm.

3. If this drags out any longer, there's a risk he'll start claiming some sort of adverse possession - working the farm for years without any legal.paperwork saying what his status is etc.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073535#Comment_122073535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073535#Comment_122073535

The solicitor for the estate keeps telling me that we need to go into settlement talks as if a judge sees we have not he will send us off on any case to get an agreement.

The herd number was transferd into my name for a period of time by my father. So I believe that I have a right to it. Now maybe I am wrong about that. But surely someone can not use a dead man's herd number and pretend to be him. My brother does not have the necessary requirements to obtain a herd number.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073907#Comment_122073907

I don't believe the estate solicitor. I have been an executor twice. Perhaps you and your sisters should ask a solicitor to clarify this point and engage them to represent you jointly if they confirm what the estate solicitor is suggesting. It might be advisable for you three to engage a solicitor anyway to demand the executor get on with doing their job.

lateron

You are so right. My other two siblings have taken a back seat. They have always let me do the shite work and they come up smelling of roses.

I am looking for my quarter and will not settle for anything less.

He is earning a living off the farm and not accounting for anything. The executor could finf herself in trouble here as a result.

The solicitor has advised that he can not claim adverse possession as he has engaged in this battle and the estate is in dispute with him.

The more I have resd today from everyones comments, the more I realise that I have to stand up for myself.

I asked the solicitor to send me paperwork that is important and I have not received it. Talks are tomorrow afternoon. I will see what the morning brings. I won't settle for anything less than my quarter and hinntonoay all legal costs.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073932#Comment_122073932

The estate solicitor wants this settled. So I don't trust that they have my best interests at heart. I will be standing up for myself and not be pushed around anymore in relation to this. My parents made their wishes very clear. Just because he is greedy and wants control doesn't mean that I will enable him into getting it.

Thanks for the help.

cnocbui

You should not engage with any 'settlement talks' unless directed to do so by a judge. If there is a dispute of the will it needs to be adjudicated by a judge, in a court. Jim2007 is right on this.

blackbox

Have you actually seen the will?

The solicitor recommending settlement talks seems very strange if the will is straightforward.

lateron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122073969#Comment_122073969

There will be barristers there. One for my brother and one for the estate. It is in the 4 courts.

I will ring a solicitor in the morning for advice for myself. The more I read today the more I believe the solicitor for the executor wants me to settle and make her life easier. I can go there and not agree with any of the proposals. I believe then he would have to take it to court to prove that he was promised the farm which is what he is saying ( my mother's notes prove otherwise) or the estate will have to be administered.

I do believe that he wants this land so badly that we will fair out better on settlement. He may possibly agree to paying costs otherwise if the executor divides the estate, they will divide the costs equally among is all too.

I am right in thinking this?