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Sepsis deaths in hospitals.

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,145 ✭✭✭monkeybutter




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,431 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.thejournal.ie/aoife-johnston-death-inquest-6361296-Apr2024/?utm_source=shortlink

    "She said Aoife Johnston and these 66 other seriously ill patients were waiting more than ten hours to see a doctor when the recommend standard waiting time for Category Two patients was “15 minutes”.

    She said she telephoned an on-call consultant and told him of the risks to patients and asked him to come to the emergency department, but she said, “he declined my request”.

    Another consultant initially declined to come to the ED but arrived later on."

    Earning up to 240k, on-call, simply refuses to work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,145 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    yeah but you don't need a consultant necessarily to treat everyone in the ED



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Nobody wants to turn up at A&E if they can help it, you make it sound like people are doing it for the craic. Who are these people you're referring to as having an air of self importance, and 'forcing' their way into A&E?

    How you can be so dismissive of someone seeking emergency treatment because they are genuinely scared, when this young woman is in the news for being the victim of gross negligence, is truly perplexing. I'm guessing you must be a front line worker to which you have my sympathy, but you're blaming the wrong people for what's currently happening in our health system.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,145 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    drink and drugs a major factor in the ED problem. Anywhere you can wander on foot to the hospital its an issue

    james for example is like a zombie film at the weekends

    in many ways its worse than the ludicrous wait times

    injury units are a great idea and concentrating the EDs in the big hospitals make sense, but they are closed when you need them

    so everyone ends up in ED

    if you are lucky to break your arm or get stabbed at 10am its grand, but it never seems to work out that way



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,421 ✭✭✭crusd


    It seems the figures I had for 2022 were incorrect. Mortality rates below WHO rates and comparable with similar countries

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,145 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    have you first hand experience that EDs are full up with old people in need of palliative care?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Surely, a case that has signs of possible sepsis or meningitis would have to be prioritised over someone only has a broken bone or a slipped disc or some other injury as a result of slipping on ice - one of the reasons for the overcrowding at the time of Aoife's death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭political analyst


    From what I read in the Sunday Indo recently, a consultant who refused to come in at the time wasn't told that there was a possible case of sepsis in the ED.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭political analyst


    He wasn't told at the time that there was a possible case of sepsis in the hospital.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,816 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Is s/he your chosen scape goat?

    From the initial report:

    "Overcrowding was now effectively endemic at UHL’s emergency department.

    Further, there was only one emergency department consultant on call over the weekend that Ms Johnston was brought for treatment.

    It also found that, over that weekend, there were not enough nurses and medical staff on roster to cater for the large number of patients seeking treatment."

    So it seems that one consultant covered the ED over the entire weekend - you cannot expect them to be there uninterrupted over the full 48 hours - if only to give them a break to eat and use the toilet. Hardly refusing to work

    Was the consultant that the CNM called even an ED consultant? (It appears she called 2, there was only 1 on call, so at least one of them wasn't required to be available)

    But if we can blame an individual doctor (or nurse) then we can safely ignore the systemic (and it seems endemic) issues at play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,816 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    66 other patients we all triaged as category 2 - Emergency (to be seen within 15 minutes). The only higher level is category 1, which which Immediate (eg someone in cardiac or respiratory arrest). Slipped discs and uncomplicated broken bones would have been triaged lower and all 67 category 2 patients would be prioritised over them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭political analyst


    In category 2, what could possibly be more serious than a suspected case of either sepsis or meningitis?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,485 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    My mother was meant to be getting a transfer to another hospital a few weeks ago. Expecting a taxpayer funded ambulance but a charity (which I will not name) showed up to do the transfer. Apparently it's the done thing from time to time for our HSE to rely on charities to do their work, which in itself is an absolute disgrace. Top notch work by the charity I should add



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,431 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Given the numbers in the ED, he should have helped out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,816 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/04/23/aoife-johnston-inquest-limerick-hospital-was-not-a-safe-environment-for-patients-on-night-teen-died/

    There were 191 patients in the emergency department

    15 nurses on duty along with three doctors - one SHO and two registrars.

    Category Two patients that weekend were waiting upto 19 hours.

    A less-ill Category Three Patient faced a wait time of up to 39 hours.

    Sounds like a situation that would warrant an emergency response plan to be activated - except it seems that the situation was also not exceptional at UHL

    This is a massive failure at the highest levels of management in UHL and the HSE. Individual doctors and nurses are overwhelmed and working in a toxic environment. They don't deserve to be blamed, even if, as I'm sure the inquest will show, there were shortcomings in their management.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I survived sepsis a few years , I went to my GP with what I thought was a bad flu , after a preliminary test I was given a letter and told to go to AE .

    Within two minutes if arriving in hospital I was admitted and placed in resus. Couldn’t tell about the first 24 hrs , other than I woke up with drips in both arms.

    I was lucky , spending only a shot time in hospital however have damage to my liver and there was concerns over my kidneys and heart.

    My GP said she reckoned I was within 12 hours of dying if I hadn’t seen her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The more I hear reported on this case, the more shocking it gets. A major failure of our health system. You'd really feel for the parents, stuck in there with their very sick daughter, asking for help and getting little response. Blaming themselves when blameless, for not shouting louder - trusting a system which was failing miserably. And the staff who were deeply affected and left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    UHL will never change, they seem to love having 1 doctor on over the weekend in the ED.

    I attended a night there was a terrible car accident(Involving 2 people) out in west limerick as I was directed to by my doctor. Nobody, out of 4 of us in ED were seen that night(7pm - 4am(I left at 4am)). There was one elderly lady awaiting seeing the doctor at that time also.

    I said at the time, what in the name of god would happen if an actual serious incident occurred, eg a mass casualty event or even a car crash involving 4 people who needed urgent care. Its a farce.

    Its bizarre to me that such a large building, with such a large catchment area can be dependent on so few staff all of the time. Of course the HSE will paint this as not the norm, but I am sure we will have enough anecdotes here to prove otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    This Facebook page, among others, proves that Limerick A&E loves operating the way it does for whatever reason.

    https://www.facebook.com/MidWestHospitalCampaign

    EG:
    "

    𝑻𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒘𝒆𝒆𝒌𝒔 𝒕𝒓𝒐𝒍𝒍𝒆𝒚 𝒘𝒂𝒕𝒄𝒉 𝒇𝒊𝒈𝒖𝒓𝒆𝒔

    436598338_441748445174803_4501322830610121606_n.jpg

    𝙏𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝘾𝙖𝙢𝙥𝙖𝙞𝙜𝙣 𝙩𝙖𝙠𝙚𝙨 𝙖𝙣 𝙖𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙖𝙜𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙬𝙚𝙚𝙠𝙡𝙮 𝙩𝙤𝙩𝙖𝙡 𝙩𝙤 𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙢𝙖𝙩𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙎𝙖𝙩𝙪𝙧𝙙𝙖𝙮 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙎𝙪𝙣𝙙𝙖𝙮 𝙛𝙞𝙜𝙪𝙧𝙚𝙨.Figures have been counted by Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO) who count Monday - Friday. INMO have been counting trolley figures since 2004 and have been universally accepted. "



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭fish fingers


    My wife nearly died from sepsis 3 yrs ago, she went in for a hysterectomy and came home after a day recovering. She started feeling sick so we went back in to hospital. It was during covid so I was sent home again. I thought she was dehydrated and a night with a drip would sort it out.

    I got a phone call in the morning to come in quickly to see her as she was being rushed in for a emergency operation. They had to put a colostomy on to save her life. She was mere hrs from death, if we left it any longer when we went back in she would have died. When we looked for answers they circled the wagons and tried to say she had the infection before the hysterectomy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭tarvis


    having spent time with ill people in A&E there is something I can’t figure out. On entry to the area one gives all details to the receptionist name address age et etc and pays the required fee . The paperwork is thus done and dusted.

    However if one gets a trolley near the nurses station office one can watch what’s going on. Many staff - doctors and nurses glued to a line of computer screens - what exactly are they filling in?
    Are bureaucratic tick boxes taking up their time and attention?

    Are they looking up a disease on DrGoogle

    It seems the bureaucracy has achieved supremacy over sick people and I’s must be dotted and T’s must be crossed before something as mundane as temperatures, blood pressures and patients voices are sought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭csirl


    The 191 patients waiting = €19,100 in additional income for the hospital for a single night. Surely they could afford the additional staff? Especially given that the rostered staff are paid by the HSE?

    Crowded A&E = more income, which should translate into more doctors on duty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Reviewing and updating patient records perhaps.

    It's the sort of accurate, up to date information that is vital to being able to properly manage patient care and prioritise patients who need to be prioritised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,138 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A huge % of those attending A&E are either not required to pay (GP referral, medical card) or just don't pay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,920 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Anytime I've been the ER I've thought the same.

    I remember another time a nurse kept filling out something on the door. Then I realised they were filling out that the patient in the room was checked, when they never ever entered the room..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,920 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I don't buy that. You don't need to see a patient for 5 mins and spend hours doing paperwork. Something wrong if that's the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭political analyst


    On that day in December 2022, why did UHL not tell Dr James Gray that there was a suspected case of sepsis in the ED?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭political analyst


    It being that busy in ED wasn't enough of a justification for him to go in because it was always busy - he's not Superman!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I think this situation is very nuanced and I imagine there is similar risk every week in UHL and beyond. I was in A&E Galway recently and it was absolutely chaotic with a severe shortage of beds and staff. We were in the A&E for over a week and my relation never got to a ward bed even though we were officially "admitted".

    Lack of bed capacity and medical staff is a major factor.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0425/1445591-johnston-inquest/

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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