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Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Kerry2021


    personally I felt that at that stage in 2021 the kerry shares were in a “dead cat bounce” phase. They’d fallen from €128.50 to €88.50 and like a dead cat bounced back to €115, I felt it wouldn’t last. By 2021 we had at that stage as shareholders voted to reject the 2019 share redemption scheme, in April 2021 we missed the giant iceberg that was the JV, I felt it was all going nowhere and genuinely from the bottom of my heart had lost all faith in the co-op management. Funnily enough one of the main reasons I sold was because the co-op kept sending me legal letters threatening to expel me from the co-op and take my shares off me. The irony is that I may have never sold up if it wasn’t for those people in the co-op management that were so intent on pushing me out the door. Then when I agreed to sell my co-op shares in May 2021 the next board meeting where it could go through was August, the board blocked the sale of my shares at that and they didn’t go through until November 2021 and a house that I was interested in dropped its asking price from €250,000 to €240,000 during the time that the co-op has the sale of my shares all held up and I ended up getting the house for €238,000 so the co-op actually made me money by blocking the sale of my shares. It’s just funny because everything they did back then seemed to backfire, obviously we’ve a new chairman now and a new co-op board for the most part



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    He bought them same as he could have bought AIB shares, or a house etc. Same as you could have, what he paid or received for then is his own business as much as when and why he sold, and is all largely irrelevant. Changes in trading arrangements of said shares meant that a very significant amount of previously realisable profit was unachievable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭older by the day


    I was wondering why did they make him sell. Why the legal letters



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,375 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Back around 2020/21 the co-op board were attempting a smash and grab with the intention using the shareholding to buy out the agri business and channel a significant amount of the value left in the co-op shareholding in Kerry group into a new co-op venture

    "C" share holder looked the most vulnerable with the risk that there co-op shares would be seriously devalued buy this but also by the practice of giving shares to active milk producers according to milk they supplied to Kerry group

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Kerry2021


    There was no real logic to the legal letters.

    The co-op tried to have the share redemption written into the co-op rule book in 2019 and I spoke out against it because we the shareholders were being asked to reduce the value of the co-op shares from 6.12 to 5.9 and sign away the right to any cash that was there, off the top of my head that would of meant the shareholders voting to say they basically didn’t want €150 million of their own money and that money would of been a sort of investment fund for the co-op, at the time there was co-op directors going around telling people the co-op was going to borrow €400 million on the strength of the rest of the shares that the co-op had in kerry group. The last time the co-op went off investing money on our behalf had been One51, that ended badly to say the least. The co-op was telling people they’d be able to redeem their co-op shares at a ratio of 5.9 kerry group shares per co-op share, because of “participation exemption” which is a tax law that meant what the co-op was telling shareholders was lies. Kerry Co-op owns 11% of kerry group, when that drops to 5% the co-op itself will have to pay 33% CGT on the sale or transfer of its shares in kerry group so instead of having 5.9 shares available for shareholders it would only have bad 3.95 - that’s an absolute fact. There was 100 more reasons to vote against that redemption scheme, mainly it’s designed for self designated pension funds to buy shares off farmers like me and after a few weeks be able to cash them in and make a 30% profit. Best of luck to those guys that bought the shares off me and made a €200,000 profit after a few weeks of owning them, the problem I have is with the co-op board, imagine having €700,000 in a bank account and being told by the lady behind the counter that you can only have €500,000 of it and they’re gonna give €200,000 of it away to a stranger standing next to you.

    Then I spoke out against the JV in 2021. Some “seafield documents” leaked in April of that year, I imagine the co-op must of known for a 100% fact who it was that leaked them because they never even attempted to blame me for it and by then I was their go too guy to blame for everything. Anyway the JV was literally throwing we the shareholders under a big bus. I put my money where my mouth was and spoke out against it very publicly and when I went for selling my shares later that year the co-op board blocked the sale of my shares and what I heard back at the time was that the co-op board were largely very against my shares being blocked and a lot of them were threatening to resign from the board over it even in fairness to them. The whole thing kind of blew up big time. The co-op board were being compared with North Korea etc in national papers, long story short it got sorted out and my shares got sold and the chairman announced he’d not be going for re election that year which meant he was stepping down as chairman.

    I’ll attach one of the last legal letters the co-op sent to my own solicitor



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,688 ✭✭✭straight


    Upgrading the milk tank here. Trying to decide between new and second hand. Will I be able to get the VAT back or what? Leo said he was going to sort it out himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,360 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I got the vat back on my new tank. I know another farmer who didnt



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    I think you will get vat back with a tank going into a new building. If it's going into existing building you won't. Basically to get it back you would need to be submitting invoices for concrete and steel with the tank



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Thanks for explaining that. I didn't have a clue what you are on about



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭awaywithyou




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭cosatron


    He may need planning for an outdoor silo. Planner made a lad get retention for his silo when applying to upgrade parlour



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Hard to believe its time to start breeding again (not myself, the cows). I guess a lot of sexed semen, have you bulls bought. Anyone doing anything different



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,688 ✭✭✭straight


    Na, 9000 litre tank will do me. Might go new altogether If I get the grant and vat back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,688 ✭✭✭straight




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭older by the day


    I think the fr bull calves are broken. A good aa bull in Feb is 250 an frx bull is 25.

    I changed my tank in 22, between the vat and the 40% tams it worked out only about 2000 more than a 15 year old tank I looked at



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    You could have a fair bit of milk put into them for to get 250 too especially down south where we are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Kerry2021


    sold 6 weeks old AA heifer calves for 100 lately, got 120 for the AA bull calves of the same age on the same day in the mart. A complete disaster



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ginger22


    The AA and Herefords are fine early in the year but later when they get plentiful they are no better than Fresians.

    Then with the sexed semen, between lower conception and 90% female you are no better off.

    Will stick with the dairy breeds here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,375 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    As @ginger22 says it supply. Lads rearing calves now have choices. They no longer are chasing limited supply. LSL helps them as well you can buy calves at any mart as long as you are happy with the distance to collect.

    Saw 3 month old calves in Abbey female last Saturday ( not buying at present) they were good calves, proper Fr's 165, BBX heifers 260, HEX 400 euro, all came from the one seller. I much prefer them than your AA's @ 100 &120 euro.

    AA's bullocks are now gennerally hanging in the 300-330kgs. Unless you hit the high priced parts of the year its a tight enough game. Hit the strongly priced times and there is a decent twist.

    Kilmallock yesterday was not putting dam breed on the board. Obviously following Aidan Brennans bullsh!t article

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    stayed with conventional semen here. Sexed semen is expensive and then the risk of lower conception. I’ve no issue letting bull calves off for 20€ if they’re gone quick enough.

    Milk in the tank is the most important thing for me. If you’re only going to bring 10-15% heifers into the herd each year and you get a bad run with sexed semen calving could be very slow and milk in the tank could be alot less

    Bottom 1/3 of the herd get beef straight away. You still get good heifer calves off the top 2/3 of the herd. A lot of production is down to management too. You could have great genetics but you need to feed and manage them well to get the milk solids



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    I suppose the debate centers around sexed semen as to whether to use standard ai and have fr bulls or sexed and increased beef breeding.all along you were better off with fr ai as a pair of male of female the fr would gross more due to heifer calf price but now heifer price has crashed so the hereford/aa pair are probaly grossing more.the way it runs here is the fr bulls are almost an easy sell exporter comes and takes them at 30 euro.i m lucky in that I have a nice few repeat local customers for the Herefordshire but the heifers would be a slower trade.we would take a good few of the he heifers to the mart and usually the worst ones whereas the bulls would largely trade at home.usually sell about 50 +kilos..I think alot of lads just love getting the good price in the mart and wouldn't care if it cost money. in view of the 5 cent a litre top on march milk it's almost certain every 70 or 80 kilo calf out of the carbery region lost money on them



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,688 ✭✭✭straight


    Glad to hear I'm not the only one getting screwed. Hate talking about calves. It's a supply/demand issue mostly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,360 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Had a lad came last night looking to buy a calf to put on a cow. He needed the calf. I asked 80 euro, he said so and so bought calves for 20 euro in the mart. I said work away in the mart....no sale



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,152 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    week and a half in heifers donebon sync with sexed …using lot of sexed on cows too as well as some conventional and he ..bb and ch beef



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    Staying conventional but going all polled holstein this year. Got a great run of heifers off the two used last year. Mighty job not having to put them through the stress of dehorning. I even see Munster have a Kerry bred bull that's heterogeneous polled. FR7923, on paper he's as good as anything they have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,586 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Grasstech are doing some advertising on zero-grazers, sales must be right now, doing inhouse finance aswell over 7 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ginger22


    All polled here with the last few years. One job less to do.

    Do you get the straws brought in or go with what they have available. The selection by the Irish stations is limited.

    They don't want the word getting out. Might devalue their "gene Ireland bulls"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    I see the latest one of a lad with 60 cows on 40 acres, he’s not stocked that heavy. No need for one if he was doing a good job at grass



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    Take what they have but theyre usually pre-order bulls. It's limited but at least improving.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Any recommendations for cubicles suppliers, preferably in the south-east of the country?

    I've old 3-legged cubicles in the shed that would probably do, even though some are broken and need to be replaced. If the price was manageable, I'd consider replacing them all.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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