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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,235 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    it feels like Ukraine is hurtling towards a point of nothing to lose. It all hinges on those republicans. After seeing Johnson nodding along to that orange freak I don’t think any Ukrainian funding is getting done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭randomuser02125


    It's at times like this I understand the more deranged Brexiters and the non racist/non misogynistic/non homophobic cohort of Trump voters (minority but they do exist) who just want the world to burn and couldn't give a flying about the consequences. I look at Ukraine being abandoned by the US and think I f***ing hope China invades Taiwan and sends the f***ing stock market to zero. Then I take a deep breath and get back to normal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    US doesn't support Ukraine's right to strike such ostensibly strategic targets on Russian soil …………….. but is happy to cheer on the zionists to randomly kill Iranian diplomats in an Embassy in Damascus (technically Iranian soil)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Did not think we'd be at this stage in 2024. So muchh blood and loss at the hands of the GOP.

    Absolutely disgusting the situation the UAF are now in.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    As regards Chinese aid to the Russians, have seen some suggestions of satellite surveillance which would certainly seem to be a shot in the arm for their efforts.

    In terms of the Trump/Johnson meeting, seen different interpretations. Some that he is encouraging the house GOP to leave the Ukrainians out to dry. Others that he would call off the attack dogs if a vote is called.

    Of course if Iran conducts a heavy strike, there may be increased pressure to pass a bill.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭weisses


    If the US fails to deliver for Ukraine I would strongly suggest Europe to critically think about their relationship with the US…. perhaps even step out of NATO as a block, The US cannot be trusted and their political turmoil is costing European lives for 2 decades now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    If I were a ruler of a small wealthy nation. I'd be investing in nuclear weaponry. We've seen what happens when you have none.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    "No nation has friends, just interests". Charles de Gaulle

    The United States doesn't give a flying hoot about Ukraine. The Biden Whitehouse telling Ukraine they aren't to attack petroleum producing facilities inside Russia so gas prices don't rise resulting in less of a chance of Biden getting elected proves that. Anyway whatever about the US and it's interests the real cowards here are us in Europe. It's on our doorstep and we've done the bare minimum to help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,012 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Ireland - small wealthy nation - ✔

    Uranium stocks in Donegal and Wicklow in it's own territory - ✔

    A vision of the country but to be subservient to the latest Russian or American despot bought with Russian oil and gas money....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭gw80


    Yep, hope European countries remember this the next time America is attacked like 9/11,

    For good or bad most of Europe rowed in behind America after it was attacked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭gw80


    Just to add to this,

    The same scenario would play out if it were a Eu country or non eu country, most Americans would make no distinction between say Poland and the Ukraine, nato or not nato, the same political games would be playing out,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    It should be obvious to you by now that there is no mood among large swathes of the American or European electorate for war, especially for loser wars. The widespread protests by potential Democrat voters has materially changed the American administrations attitude towards the Israeli's military campaign in Gaza and forced Netenyahu into retreat. Traditionally conservative voters have never been that interested in foreign intervention, the major wars involving American soldiers have been led by progressives (starting with Wilson in WWI, WWII & Vietnam). Gulf War II and the current disaster that is American foreign policy (bringing freedom and democracy to the world) has been a consequence of the neocons longstanding ambitions. The American administration has recently turned on them and the neocon Victoria Nuland has been given the road, though Anthony Blinken is still there. There are no votes to be had by any political party sending American troops to confront Russia and having to tell the American public that your administration squandered billions in American wealth with no upside, that ain't going to fly. The pointing at Trump and the GOP is just a diversion by the current American and European administrations setting up their alibis for their failure by scapegoating another party.

    People calling for more intervention and more attacks are calling for the acceleration of the current WWIII. Be careful what you are asking for, it might be you or your relatives on the eastern front. This wars can end this year, if they do then so much the better. Politics being what it is, the GOP can claim they stopped the Democrats wasting American taxpayers money. Democrat administration not willing to be associated with the loss have every incentive to keep the wars going this side of the election, the next administration can be blamed.

    If the war does not end this year, it will culminate in much greater loss of men and material by 2027 when all sides (that includes us here in Ireland) have exhausted their resources and agree to compromise. The final phase of the previous world wars (I & II) direct fighting only lasted about 4 to 5 years.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,012 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Russia has never faced the European Union and the US in direct confrontation.

    Russia is a minnow compared to these two. But we are all supposed to be afraid of Russia and bow before it's threats. And it's working. Russia has bought the US opposition and stifled movement. Russia has it's supporters lined through the European Union ready to shout down any Union in military force.

    It's a country smaller in population than Germany and France on the border of the EU yet has such a grip on people that at all times say leave Putin be and let him take more land and people. For what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,891 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Russia did not simply come in and assert a grip on anything. What they did was they identified certain fractures in the social fabric of western countries, certain points of discontent and then spread disinformation which has amplified them via malcontents and mouthpieces who are mostly protected by the tenet of freedom of speech. The result of this would be (Russia and China hope) that western democracies are too busy in-fighting to provide effective and sustained opposition to whatever moves they make.

    Liberal democracy requires work to maintain and consistent principles to maintain its integrity. One is that there must be a sense of civic responsibility that prioritises the common good over individual gain and individual expression and that's something we've badly lost sight of. It's why social media companies have for so long gladly helped spread disinformation because of the potential profit and don't care if the world burns because of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭randomuser02125




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,891 ✭✭✭✭briany


    @Pa ElGrande

    It should be obvious to you by now that there is no mood among large swathes of the American or European electorate for war, especially for loser wars.

    This is a truism. It's always been the case that a country will want prosperity and peace over bloody war and will only change stance when they believe the risk-reward ratio to be high enough. The trouble with this is that a steadfast policy of peace leads to appeasement of aggressors and only a postponement of direct confrontation.

    So if, for the sake of argument, we see Russia eventually conquer Ukraine and begin to agitate the Baltics with Chinese backing in 5 or 10 years time, will that be the red line, or will people in the West say, "You know, that's really more of a Baltic problem…", and you could go down the line with that until the forces are on your own border all because each individual country wanted just a few days more peace…

    People don't need to call for direct intervention, but the policy of giving Ukraine the aid it needs to defend its territory makes perfect sense to put Russia back in its box and China along with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    That is exactly what an orcist, ruZzian, pro kremlin, muscovite putinbot would say. How many roubles are the guys at Orwell Road paying you?! 😁

    Seriously though, I've not followed this thread in ages, but the situation remains depressingly predictable. Lots of Western talk of military aid doesn't match the reality of the trickle that's happening on the ground. Meanwhile the Russians have more time to continue to ramp up their military production, reinforce their positions and also develop some nasty surprises of their own (the guided FAB bombs have been the most recent innovation).

    Last year people were talking about a counter offensive and a drive to Melitopol to cut off Crimea. Now we're talking about survival/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,661 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Things must be looking up a little bit for Russia in their war if you are posting again after quiet period!

    You are using some very strange and awkward terms like the "European Administrations" and the "European Electorate", but that is a lecture about state of US internal politics, how politicians and the electorate are tired of wars around the world now (bless!).

    You try to shoe-horn Europe into it somehow but it does not fit well. Do you live here I wonder? Ukraine is in Europe and results for Europe (EU and also Ireland) of any Russian success/Ukrainian loss are different (and alot more ugly) vs those for the US.

    Anyway unfortunately for us, little evidence Putin and the Russian leadership is tiring of wars yet.

    Refusing to aid Ukraine any further supposedly to save US$ and urging them to just get it all over with and surrender seems unlikely to me to reduce Russia's appetite for starting wars and usher in peace in Europe. It only takes one to wage a war, if you just refuse to fight at all, you can still be a victim.

    Whatever about the US, there is really no way out for Europe of spending far more money on war (militaries and weapons) now and suffering the pain from that, whether that it is continuing to aid Ukraine as much as possible in present and/or rearming back to end of Cold War levels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Germany stepping up to the plate yet again. Not sure with the translation if it's just the fire control unit system or includes launchers.

    German Ministry of Defense: Germany will immediately hand over another PATRIOT fire unit to Ukraine to repel Russian air strikes. It will be delivered in addition to the air defense systems that have already been delivered and are still planned



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    In my case, it would be me fighting on the Eastern Front. And I’m good with that. Russia needs to be stopped now, when it’s weak. If we fail to do so, it could very well be my son who gets drafted to fight in a few years, and in a much nastier war against a more capable Russia.

    Isolationism or “not our problem” has never forestalled a war, and usually it just means it’s going to be a bigger war when the dam finally breaks. Whilst I can understand (but not entirely agree) with the policy of letting Ukraine fight without other nations also fighting, that should not be the only and exclusive option to attain the desired result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Nobody is going to be fighting on the Eastern front, unless they want to go over to help Ukraine now that is.

    Talking up WW3 is equally ridiculous.

    Russia will not be pushing any further than Ukraine or perhaps Moldova if they can get that far.

    Not a hope they will attempt an attack on NATO territory, as much as their TV propagandists might like to fawn about it. The Kremlin full well knows the implications of an attack on a NATO member.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭thomil


    German news station NTV Nachrichten talks about a 3rd Patriot system, taken from Luftwaffe stocks and available almost immediately. To me, this reads as a full battery, i.e. radar, command post, generator and multiple launchers. Previous Patriot batteries handed over to Ukraine contained 6 launchers, each with four launch cells, so I’d suspect this is a similar case.

    https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Deutschland-liefert-weiteres-Patriot-System-an-Kiew-article24871109.html

    From what I’ve been able to glean, the term “Fire Unit” (Feuereinheit in German) that was used in the press release is Bundeswehr parlance for the smallest tactical unit of any particular system that is required for said system to operate effectively. Boris Pistorius, Germany’s minister of defence, has served in the Bundeswehr, in a Gepard AAA unit no less, so it would make sense for him to fall back on terms that he’s used to.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    I think the American body politic is failing to understand, or at least failing to publically discuss, what is really at stake for them. It isnt a simple ledger entry of 60bn saved by not giving aid to Ukraine.

    If Trump wins the election and withdraws the US from NATO and turns his back on Ukraine, they will save the 60bn odd a year that they would have to spend on Ukraine, maybe save a few other dollars by reducing their overall military commitment.

    But Europe will turn cold towards the US as an unreliable defence and trade partner and seek to improve relations with China. US global hegemony will be over, and this will be either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your world view. But, what is not a matter of debate is that the US economy would, in such circumstances shrink significantly. The US would also lack allies in its rivalry with China.

    So by all means the Americans can follow an isolationist path. That is absolutely their right as a sovereign nation. I have no problem with any American voter who wants this, even though it is very bad for me as a European.

    But I feel like those Americans (or "Americans" whose IP address might be located nearer to the Volga than the Potomac) either dont know or dont want to know about the indirect consequences of such a move.

    The people who push for isolationism are pushing for a multi polar world where the US is no longer the leader of the free world. Is that really what they want? Is that really what Trump "America First" supporters want?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭eire4


    To add on to that Comrade Trump is proposing major tariffs which would likely send the US spiraling into recession. 60% on anything from China, 100% on foreign cars and 10% on all other imports as an example. If this wannabe dictator takes power again in the US the implications not just for Americans but for pretty much everyone who believes in and wants to live in free, open and democratic societies are very bad and potentially catastrophic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,891 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't believe there is a push in the US for isolationism, though. The people in the US who would like to see aid for Ukraine withdrawn would likely be full throated in their support for strikes against Iran or for US troops on the ground in Mexico to prevent further northward migration.

    It's not so much about isolation as it is about shifting priorities and alliances.

    NATO was founded as a way to protect liberal democracies and US assets from the encroachment of the USSR, but what's happening now is that you have this cohort in the US who are no longer interested in liberal democracy. Consequently, they're not interested in advancing or protecting that system of government around the globe. They would, in fact, like to see this system of government fail around the globe. The people who push for this want a more authoritarian world where they believe they will be in the 'in-group' who are looked after will everyone else suffers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Twitter has become really awful last few weeks. Pro Russian accounts seem to be convinced of imminent UAF surrender and collapse. US needs to get the finger out of the Western World turns there backs on them.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭eire4


    Unfortunately I think your right there. The Republican party at this point is an authoritarian party not a legitimate democratic party anymore and wants to turn the US into an authoritarian state rather then the at least partial democracy it currently is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,235 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    russia are the best in the world at asymmetric warfafe, unfortunately.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Id say definite not presumption

    Given what we know of Russian intentions and European investigations, the presumption has to be that some US legislators are on the Russian payroll. Nice analysis here.



This discussion has been closed.
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