Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

Of course they have to make a statement! can't believe anyone would think otherwise

I have no idea what this post is supposed to prove , people can and do make false statements about alleged crimes under many different laws. They can be prosecuted for it. No idea who thinks it's 'ok' it's a crime.

So what exactly is different with the way vexatious complaints are currently handled ?

The legislation is nothing to do with hurt feelings. It's about incitement to hatred and violence.

the fact that you thinkers about hurt feelings just shows you don't understand or haven't read it.

And I hate to tell you, but no mostly you cannot disprove someone's claims, if someone really wants to pretend they were burgled, then no one will investigate them for lying, without a really good reason.

Arent we all.

Sure how would we know? There could be thousands! That's doubtful and im just being funny😊

But how.could we know, because there was no legislation, therefore no crime, no investigations, no charges etc.

😁Nobody is calling for nasty words to be criminalised.

I said it was a joke🙄

No, we wouldn't know, how could we possibly? Do you think that victims would be publicising them?

we do have records of non crime hate incidents recorded by gardai, so.presumably some reported non crime incidents would indeed be crimes under new legislation.

https://garda.ie/en/information-centre/statistics/hate-crime-statistics.html

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our-departments/office-of-corporate-communications/press-releases/2023/march/an-garda-siochana-2022-hate-crime-data-and-related-discriminatory-motives.html

You can be prosecuted for making a vexatious complaint i e accusing someone unlawfully. There is no vexatious complaint if someone makes up a complaint to get someone into trouble if this is brought in as all they have to say is '' i believed it offended me' even if they didn't believe it and made it deliberately to try and get the other person in trouble. You now cannot be prosecuted if you make up the excuse that you felt offended. How can you not get this?

There is no offence of offending someone. That is not now, nor will it be an offence

Yet someone can make a baseless and false accusation without being prosecuted themselves. Topsy turvy flip flop.

As they can now.

As

Someone can do that right now. Big swing. Giving into bullys who might abuse the law isnt an excuse not to bring a law.

Same point yet again - why do we need new legislation then?

So why do we need new legislation if it is covered already?

There is no such thing as a risk free reporting system - if someone makes a false report, there is a risk to them for doing so that they will be prosecuted. Whatever incentive anyone has for making a false report, the mechanisms by which they may do so, already exist. If they do not wish to make a false report in person, they may do so by telephone call, or online:

https://www.garda.ie/en/reportahatecrime/

In recent times for example a tweet by the CEO of Educate Together has upset Jewish Israeli parents, and there’s a bit of back and forth between the parents and the board of Educate Together about it. There is an incentive there for anyone to make a false report based upon current legislation which includes religion:

https://archive.ph/qXFu0

Similarly, there was an opportunity for anyone who wanted to make a false report incentivised to do so in circumstances where a teacher in an Educate Together school made an awful gaffe, and the Chairman apologised to the student and his mother for it:

Chairman of the school, Richard Allen, said it was an ‘unfortunate incident’ and apologised to the pupil and his mother.

https://www.thejournal.ie/muslim-charlie-hebdo-limerick-school-1923456-Feb2015/

You’re choosing to focus on the protected characteristic of gender, when there are nine other protected characteristics of equal value which offer the same opportunity and incentive for anyone who is of a mind to do so, to either deliberately make a false report, or make a report in good faith that later may or may not require investigation by Gardaí. It happens plenty, you just don’t hear about it because there’s no opportunity for sensationalism.

"Necessitated" means to make something necessary or unavoidable. If a situation or action necessitates something, it means that circumstances require it, making it essential or inevitable.

Necessitated by Ireland’s membership of the European Union, is not the same as saying necessary to be a member of the European Union. It means because of our membership, not - in order to be a member.

The exception to this is European Community law, which, under the terms of Article 29 of the Constitution, has the force of law in the State. This means that any law or measure, the adoption of which is necessitated by Ireland's membership of the European Union, may not, in principle, be invalidated by any provision of the Constitution.

You are contradicting yourself here, just admit you got it wrong. Nothing new.

While there’s no mention of penalties in relation to these particular measures (which are part of The Framework Decision and the Victims Rights Directive), the idea that there is no mandate for an Irish law to be passed just because of the EU, is just flat-out nonsense, as demonstrated by the fact that Ireland’s failure to transpose EU Law into Irish Law led to Ireland having to pay fines, until such a time as the Oireachtas gets the finger out and transposes all of the Directive into Irish Law:

As I have said, and you have ignored. The EU can pass certain regulations and directives. While it can pass criminal law (like the terrorist example I gave) it is ultimately up to the sovereign member states to pass their own laws.

The link you posted: "The penalty was imposed after Ireland failed to meet a September 2020 deadline for implementing the EU’s updated Audiovisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD)." Thank you for making my point for me, it was a directive, like I already pointed out.

You should really read what you copy and paste.

It seems the loony left have driven most of the complaints so far with JK Rowling being the most targeted .

Doubling down I see with a bit of a strawman, nice.

Off you pop, please take your vast knowledge of EU law with you 😀

That may indeed be how it seems as far as you’re concerned. Reality however, would seem to suggest otherwise:

The force released data showing 3.8% of the 7,152 complaints it received in the first week the hate crime act was in force were judged to be legitimate. Two hundred and forty complaints were logged as hate crimes and 30 as non-hate incidents.

Police Scotland said the vast majority of reports received during this period were anonymous and submitted online. “These were assessed against the new legislation and no further action is being taken,” it added.

Nearly half of the total number of online and anonymous reports that week were made on 1 April, at 3,419. The daily rate fell very sharply to just 180 reports on 6 April and 343 on 7 April.

In contrast, the number of complaints judged to be legitimate remained relatively constant at between 30 and 39 a day through the week. The force said the surge of complaints caused “minimal” impact on frontline policing and was dealt with by its call-handling centres and hate crime specialists.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/10/complaints-police-scotland-hate-crime-law

A large number were about a 2020 speech by First Minister Humza Yousaf - then justice secretary - highlighting white people in prominent public roles.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68721208.amp

I’m not sure whether that’s directed at either myself or tayto lover as there is no evidence to suggest that either of us have been informed by 80s and 90s legal tv shows off TV, let alone the idea that it has any effect, damaging or otherwise.

There might be cause for concern for people whose opinions of the Irish legal system and agents of the State authorised to maintain it is informed by works of fiction such as 1984, cobbled together with the idea of the right to freedom of speech from an American Constitutional perspective, in order to form the belief that free speech has, or will ever be an actual concept in law anywhere other than in their own minds.

That’s a matter of their own perception of reality, which in the vast majority of people is completely harmless. There are the tiny minority of people who try to make reality bend to their will, and they’re the kind of person who makes false reports to the authorities in the hope of frustrating the process which is made available to people to report incidents they perceive to be wrongdoing which amounts to a legitimate complaint.

This makes them a witness as far as the law is concerned, because criminal offences are committed against society, and the victim involved is a witness who can be compelled to give evidence. Victims aren’t usually compelled to give evidence, which can lead to an investigation or a prosecution being dropped due to lack of evidence. It is not, and has never been, the role of a complainant, a victim or a witness, to prove that a crime has been committed, or to prove that a person committed a criminal offence. That’s always been a matter for Gardaí.

more subjective nonse this time from unions....

Mr Callinan (Forsa) said limited information available from the Public Appointments System (PAS) shows that 88% of applications, between 2019 and 2021, were from individuals who identified as 'White Irish', and of the appointments during that period, 89% were ‘White Irish’

"What does this limited data tell us? It tells us one thing: these public services roles are not reflective of the diverse communities that they serve. And this raises some concerns for the public service more broadly," Mr Callinan said.

the figures for "white irish" applications 88% and "white irish" appointments 89% are practically the same - at this stage its every clown jumping on the political correct bandwagon and it will be the so called "white irish" who are discriminated against next !!

no wonder "hate speech" censorship and this nonsense get peoples back up

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0412/1443197-forsa-union/

Absolutely ridiculous that.

Explain how precisely Scotland’s law is “working” ??