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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    12 points ahead of where they where is 'back where they started'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The spotlight will be on SF on who to reach out to and what to offer first and foremost

    That is how it worked in the past.

    It will take months id wager to get a deal.

    And we havent even menetioned the, "We want a government without FF or FG" mantra that SF is pushing.

    SF supporters will be in for a shock when they start talking to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    If they had the will, and the discipline, to do it, they - the largest party - would have found a way. They never even made a serious attempt. I know the default SF reaction here would be to blame FF\FG, but maybe try looking at it from a wider lense for once.

    Just like the PVV. You mightn't like it but it's a valid comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    by the way, is this thread just Francie batting on his own for SF? He's a busy man! With this kind of work ethic, Mary Loo should put him in charge of election strategy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    In fairness to SF, there was an undeniable sense of shock within the party itself after the last election - they never in their wildest dreams thought they would achieve what they did. So they may well have been unprepared for the notion of government formation and had no strategy for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,994 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It could conceivably end up with a merger of the three "Republican parties" - FG, FF and SF in time? As SF gradually go more centrist etc.

    The next argument would be what the new party would be called.

    I doubt it would happen in my lifetime. But when all those from "The Troubles" era are long gone it makes it more likely it could happen.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If they had the will, and the discipline, to do it, they - the largest party - would have found a way. 

    Oh right.
    They had to find 'a way' with the sleveenism of hot and cold Micheal, opening and closing doors, who would never coalesce with FG but did, and Varadkar who was not even being open to contact, claimed putting FF back in was like putting Delaney back in the FAI and then, what did he do, he put FF back in.

    Maturity you say?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭pureza


    Lol Francie,if thats what Sinn Féin's analysis is of the latest polling,the current government will be a shoe in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is MY analysis Pureza.
    What am I missing? They are a full 12% ahead of where they where at the last EU election.

    FG were at 35% in general polls in early 2020, they are now on a 20% year long flatline. FF in 2020 reached 24%, cannot get past 17% now.

    What is your analysis of those falls and flatlines? Do the folk here not trumpet that that is good result for the government parties? Yet a 12% increase is something to be disappointed by?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭pureza


    After 4 years of this government,FG are where they started,meanwhile so are SF,are you seriously asking me why I think thats very disappointing for the main opposion party,to have 4 years being the main opposition come to nothing ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How is 12 points ahead of where they where 'where they started'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I really am beginning to think SF won't be in the next goverment at all. Down South they really don't know how to work in a coalition in a cross collegiate way. They refused to get involved with Water charges, marriage equality and Repeal until the last minute. Their activists and reps often didn't really engage with cross party campaigns on marriage equality and Repeal. On councils Their council members are all whipped/instructed by HQ way more than any other party. In councils they rarely work together in cross collegiate ways. I just see them as being so obsessed with themselves in the 26 counties that they wouldn't have the first clue at all about how to be in a coalition government.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭pureza


    I'm refering to their GE position,as well you and everyone else reading this know(s)

    They reached 23% then,they're at 23% now 4 years later

    If you'd like to discuss EU parliament comparisons,theres a thread for that

    This one is titled 'how do they form a government'

    Answer-At 20% behind the current government ,they'd want to be magicians

    Are they back to where they started at the last GE or not? And how is that not a disappointment ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Yes, absolutely. They would have found a way - instead of relapsing into blaming others for their failures. It's the difference between professionals and amateurs.

    If I can find another comparison; contrast the Nancy Pelosi speakership where she exerted iron control over a fractious caucus and got things done, versus the current Republican sh!tshow where they can't get anything done and keep trying to defenestrate their own Speaker! Professionals, Amateurs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So the two main parties effectively lock them out, won't even enter negotiations and they are supposed to find 'a way'.

    Waiting with bated breath to find out how they might have done that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭pureza


    I posted the latest poll on party voting intentions

    It's irrelevant which election they were asking about unless you want to avoid what it says,20% behind government parties after 4 years of being the main opposition would be in any analysis pretty disappointing n'est pas?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Your job, as an allegedly serious party, is to find a way to get into government and enact your agenda. (if that's not the case, then what's the point?)

    There was no real attempt to make this happen in 2020, despite being numerically the largest party. Maybe a little bit of self-awareness about this rather than seeking to reflexively blame other parties?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    No one is "locking" anyone out of anything.

    Following the election if no single group has obtained an overall majority then each group if free to go an open negotiations with anyone and everyone to see if they can arrive at a collective majority.

    Doing that will require an alignment on a Program for Government and an agreed distribution of roles and responsibilities.

    Each group have their "minimum requirements" to be willing to go into Government - If Sinn Fein are unable to work to an equitable solution where all parties are comfortable with the deal then that is as much their failure as anyone else.

    Just because Sinn Fein (or anyone else) is the single largest party it does not provide any "right" to form a government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No one is "locking" anyone out of anything.

    Not putting a tooth in it, but refusing to negotiate is effectively a lock out. Especially when someone is criticising them for 'not finding a way'. There was 'no way' when parties refused to talk.

    At no point have I ever said they had a 'right' to govern either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.thejournal.ie/meps-to-vote-on-eu-migration-pact-6350472-Apr2024/

    Chris McManus on his own doing his best to make sure that Sinn Fein are unelectable.

    When one of the major issues in this country is managing migration, he votes against all European proposals to give nation states more controls over their borders. Even the Greens, who have been blamed on here for all immigration ills, managed to vote in favour of two of the ten measures.

    It is now clear that if you uncontrolled immigration, Sinn Fein is the party to vote for. Can't really see that going down well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Mary Lou and Sinn Fein at work again, blocking apartments in the middle of a housing crisis

    The party is a disgrace, how it is allowed for someone from Foxrock to bring the case with the help of Sinn Fein is beyond me

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/developer-loses-appeal-to-save-planning-permission-for-1593-dublin-rental-apartments-1612221.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A housing crisis is not a charter for bad planning or developers out for a fast buck.
    Simple as that.

    Well done all involved here. Greed/bad planning has destroyed quite enough of our architectural heritage.

    P.S. try to understand the planning process, just because two separate people object does not mean they are ‘helping’ each other. Conspiracy theories is a different forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Wow, you think Sinn Fein are right to block houses 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sinn Fein are the most corrupt cynical political party on this island. They are only objecting to developments to stop the government. Their only interest is in themselves, they have no feeling for the people. Those houses would have been homes to hundreds of people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Absolutely if it is bad planning.
    Your Supreme Court agrees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Yeah it's get as many people onto the streets as possible

    In an area of Dublin which Doctors/nurses/students etc are all desperate for accomodations

    I wonder will Mary Lou come out with one of her Dear Deirdre letter from a nurse who could have lived in this accomodation but can't now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Don't bother quoting me, if I wanted to hear Sinn Fein propaganda I could find it myself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They talk out of both sides of their mouth on every issue.

    Look at immigration. Throwing crumbs to the far right while at the same time Chris McManus votes against measures that will address the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So just build anything you want where you want?

    This objection was fully tested and rightly declined. Imagine the state of the country if you just allow a free for all. Ridiculous



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sending on Pearse with the faux outrage act to talk about immigration on the day Simon Harris took over was incredibly embarrassing.

    Incompetence from top to bottom.

    If Sinn Fein had been shut down years ago from blocking developments we wouldn't have as big a crisis we have now, the mess they made in DCC for 5 years is still trying to be resolved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sending on Pearse with the faux outrage act to talk about immigration on the day Simon Harris took over was incredibly embarrassing.

    What was the connection there?

    Was there an embargo on talking about immigration because Simon was taking over?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭robwen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Pearse Doherty is becoming a liability. Just the sort of bleak and unrelenting negativity that sums up SF these days. Shouting for 30 second TikTok videos. Found out the odd time he appears on tv or radio, especially with his very poor grasp of detail.
    If I was Louise O’Reilly, Pa Daly, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire etc then I’d be thinking that it might be time for a new leadership. They don’t get to decide that obviously, but they surely realise the tide is going out with the current inner circle.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭Field east


    it was the voters who decided the make up of the current government. SF had the numbers if it wanted to form a gov but failed to negotiate same, I wonder why? I would be very happy if the current failing/failed/ confused/lost/ gutless/no strategy/ no plans/ etc, etc, etc, etc government were returned in the next GE if it continued to run an economy along the current lines re rude economic health, very low unemployment, significant annual savings for the rainy day, satisfactory handling of MAJOR one off issues eg Covid, BREXIT, recovery from the recent depression



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    it was the voters who decided the make up of the current government.

    Voters voted for 'parties'. They didn't decide diddly squat about the formation of the government because one of those parties was telling them they 'would never coalesce with FG' and the other was telling them that 'putting FF back in would be akin to putting Delaney back in charge of the FAI'. Seems to me that that has cost FF 5 percentage points or thereabouts and the 20% FG voters seem to be happy with the arrangement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    When SF was riding high in the polls at 34/35 percent then they were probably thinking about which constituencies they would run 2 or even 3 candidates in. At 24% and being transfer toxic they now have a different problem on their hands. If they drop below 20% at any stage then the Mary Lou, Pearse, Eoin team will have to be taken out by the leadership.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    When SF was riding high in the polls at 34/35 percent then they were probably thinking about which constituencies they would run 2 or even 3 candidates in.

    Funny, I thought they were thinking that when they achieved 24% in the GE not when they hit the highs of 34/35%. Was that not the big talking point - that they should have run more candidates.

    Party president Mary Lou McDonald acknowledged that Sinn Fein might have done things differently with hindsight.

    “I am advised I should have had a running mate in my own constituency, that’s for sure,” she joked, after topping the poll with lots to spare in Dublin Central.

    “We certainly could have fielded another candidate, but hindsight is a great thing. I’m just delighted that the candidates that we did run have performed so astonishingly well and have come back so strongly.”

    Sinn Fein’s Donnchadh O Laoghaire, who topped the poll in Cork South Central ahead of Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin, was taken aback by the results.

    “Yes I was surprised, that is the truthful answer, we weren’t expecting a vote like this,” he said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 963 ✭✭✭mikep


    Pearse was on morning Ireland and came across as a very angry man. They all seem be getting more angry as they go along...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Didn’t catch that. I tend not to listen to him these days. It’s not like he has anything new or relevant to say. Same when you see clips from the Dáil. There will be Pearse, ashen-faced, doing his shouting, pointing his finger, waving sheets of paper thing. It will be boring, abrasive and contain nothing new.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    More houses are being built, children's hospital is nearly finished, big increases for public servants, inflation is coming down, even Limerick hospital is making progress, record numbers of first-time buyers, new immigration reforms, a lot of things are being sorted over the next few months, Sinn Fein will need to sing a different tune about how they will make things better, and drop the ould whinging and crying. If they don't (and I don't believe that they can do it), their poll ratings could fall further.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Have to say I do love reading the exceptionalism about 'angry' 'whinging' opposition leaders. Seems to me opposition leaders have always relentlessly attacked the sitting government but seemingly that is a 'new' thing now. All those images of an ashen faced Micheal Martin, Kenny or Varadkar pointing across the chamber while in opposition have been wiped from many minds, it seems.

    The fault lines on which an election will be fought are fairly well established now, Doherty points out the main ones here:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The faux outrage act has been going on for years. Try to find the video with him taking off his mask during covid when he was outraged about something as well. It was hilarious.

    I think it was someone had taken all the choccie biscuits



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭Field east


    IYO, why was it necessary for FF being essential to form a gov with SF when there was enough Left wing/left leaning individuals and parties elected to form a government. The Labour Party was on board with a little compromise re gov programme and the Greens were definately on for Working with SF to form a gov.. One did not need even a national school cert to know why SF did not seriously try to form a gov after the last election



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 963 ✭✭✭mikep


    I'm aware of his faux outrage for years.. this morning he just sounded really angry.. even when Ciaran Cuddihy found a €750 million hole in his alternative budget he didn't sound as angry...

    They should probably all take a step back and see where the anger is getting them. It must be draining, physically and mentally...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    A party is under absolutely no obligation to go into government with a coalition partner they are ideologically and morally opposed to. That’s the facts of the matter.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The alternative budget which they released and had to pull for errors, still has huge holes in it? anyone really surprised?

    For the proposed Minister for Finance, he was on the other day doing the faux outrage on immigration and now today on housing.

    In the video above he was going on about Health?

    That's a lot of faux outrage, do they have nobody else in the party anymore or just sticking Pearse because they think people like his act?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This has all been gone over before.
    The numbers were not there to form a stable government. Here is the then leader of the Soc Dems:

    Catherine Murphy, co-leader of the Social Democrats, believes Sinn Féin is "serious" about forming a left-wing bloc but acknowledges Dáil arithmetic is against this taking shape.“We are interested in talking about the detail of policy and where there can be a similarity of approach,” she said. “None of us know where this is eventually going to end.”

    And this contemporaneous article sums up what was going on fairly well re: options and negotiations.

    It is just a tired old jibe now about 'seriousness'. A taunt in other words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    I don’t know why they keep rolling out the same few heads. Doherty, the utterly insufferable Eoin Ó Broin, McDonald, that other big unit from Donegal. Carthy is ok, but he has a voice that is difficult to listen to for any extended period of time.

    Cullinane is good, Pa Daly, O’Reilly; that O’Rourke lad from Meath.

    Time to change the faces, the strategy, the social media campaign. Not working.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭Field east


    Francis , I think that you are getting a bit confused now. You are now throwing out words / sentences in the hope that they will stick/ not being questioned



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