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Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    The proof is in the fact they've spent a few million on a junction redesign here in claremorris mayo on the n17

    There's more work to come on other newish black spots created by the new N roads

    Another well known dangerous stretch at Swinford , newly created and numerous fatalities since



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,530 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    People don't care.

    The culture thrives on profit, speed, drama and death. So long as more people are driving, buying, maintaining, fueling cars and so long as the tax payer pumps more money into roads, infrastructure and maintenance, it's all good.

    For the people directly involved in a road accident it's an absolute tragedy that never ends. For everyone else it's click bait on the Irish Independent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Tragically public transport isn't viable in many parts of the country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71 ✭✭tele2020


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,530 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    People drive even when they have the best public transport (in Ireland) available to them. My point is not a public transport debate, it's that people just don't care. Road deaths and accidents are collateral damage that society is happy to accept. I am sure there will be some tipping point, but people don't vote for better road safety or give up privacy or rights for better road safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭Whocare


    I will say it again if people could upload dash cam footage of dangerous driving to garda .people will be lot more Cautious then . I even if see car in front has dash cam won't pass out on Continuous white line even if it's safe to do so



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The "black box" thing isn't a terrible idea , but the nuance is important.

    My Daughter had one in her car for her 1st years driving and she was sent a weekly report showing the various details.

    It tracked her speed , her hard accelerating/braking actions and what they described as "excessive steering movement"

    She's a decent safe driver , but we live in a rural area with lots of narrow badly surfaced roads between us and anything else.

    Her reports would show Zero speeding incidents , zero incidents of "hard accelerating" but lots of braking and steering "incidents" which I believe were directly linked to the roads we drive on - Swerving to avoid a new pothole or other item on the road. braking and swerving to pull in to a small soft margin to allow a car to pass etc.

    All done at relatively low speed , but often times on a backroad you have only one quick opportunity to pull in to the only wide part of the road that allows two vehicles to pass when you spot the oncoming car , otherwise one or other car will be reversing 200/300 metres.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    First paragraph is very debatable

    2nd paragraph not true for many people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,530 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I refined my response in a post after this. But it really stems from sheer frustration from me on selfishness in our society.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Are they still advertising publicly the location of the speed vans ?

    Drivers are flying outside my place since the van disappeared

    Doesn't bother me, am in no hurry and drive to the speed limit and I've no need to worry about getting speeding points



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 467 ✭✭Richmond Ultra


    Traffic watch is permitted. Just be available for court dates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Didnt bill renko or whatever he's called say he was firing in camera footage regularly to the gards and no court appearances

    Why anyone would be bothered with that crack is beyond me but still keeps him nappy



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,259 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    usually doesn't come to that AFAIK - a garda will ask you 'are you willing to take this all the way to court'; for two reasons, they want to know you're serious - but also, they want to be able to say that to the person being accused, a 'be aware, if you fight this, there'll be someone in court willing to swear they saw you breaking the law, and you run the risk of doubling the penalty if you go to court'. i think the theory is most people take the penalty on offer at that point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    That's regional news, which I suppose is fine to report on.

    I'm talking about the National news, like the Six one news for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭combat14


    the population has increased by about a million here over the last 20 years

    our road deaths are way lower than many parts of europe

    and the state of the roads in parts of the country with enormous pot holes is unreal

    talk of road deaths is deflection from building more houses the country needs

    these new 30km road limits are purely green party agenda driven drive to get us all back to horse, carts bicycles and donkeys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Thats a good point - people vote for what affects them - for drivers, they dont see themselves at risk.

    That brilliant statistic that came out in the US holds here too - that 90% of drivers think they are better than the average driver.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Thats a good one - so people are using road deaths as a way to deflect from the things you care about….. yes thats right….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭ARX


    Bild isn't exactly regional news. It's sold all over Germany (although it's a rag tbh).

    Road accidents would feature in regional TV news (Germany is a federation of states, so these regions are pretty large - for example the state of Hessen has 6 million people and Bavaria has 13 million) and bigger accidents (for example a bus crash a few days ago with 5 dead) would feature on national TV programs like Tagesschau.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭ARX


    How is discussing road deaths stopping homes from being built?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,677 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    And well known to those who fail to drive to the known condition, generally.

    I don't disagree with anything you say, but often, the 'bad roads' is used as part of the general tactic of absolving drivers of responsibility and blaming anything and everything else for an 'accident'. We are where we are with the roads, so drivers need to drive to the conditions around them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,259 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if it's bad roads, you'd have to ask how many of the recent fatalities happened on roads the drivers were unfamiliar with?

    i suspect it's a case of familiarity breeding contempt in more than a few cases; people driving too recklessly because they 'know' the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    There's dangerous stretches of roads. That's a fact

    This often comes to light later due to fatalities

    Renko and others can and will keep arguing the toss but the proof is the subsequent amendments to these roads to make them safer

    Im not saying this is a major contributor to the road death tally btw . I haven't done this calculation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    RTE announce 'shocking increase in traffic violations over the weekend'.. what do they expect when the Gardaí actually put out road checks? It's hard to detect traffic violations in the office.

    RSA need to be refocused - clearly an issue with young and inexperienced drivers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,273 ✭✭✭kirving


    If you look at the linked data for 431 driver fatalities only, 362 had coronial files, and 334 had toxicology results available, 122 (37%) were positive for Alcohol & 45 (13%) for Cocaine.

    Remember again that this data is only for drivers who died, and ignoring that data is intentionally presented that you can't tell how many drivers didn't test positive for something, the RSA data analysts did manage to get some important qualifiers in the small print which may or may not answer your question:

    1. Anything over 20mg/100ml counts as Positive for the purpose of this chart.
    2. "A positive toxicology result does not imply impairment".

    I'm not for a moment advocating or excusing drink or drug driving, and it's clearly an issue to be tackled, but equally I think this data is massaged in order to add more shock value, when the important thing is the truth (not just in the smallprint) if you want to actually solve the problem.

    The vast majority of drivers can (rightly or wrongly) can legally drink 2.5 times what would count at a positive result here - a mixed message at minimum, and while I don't disbelieve the cocaine figure from seeing how endemic it's use is in pubs in Dublin, like cannabis it can be detected 2-3 days after use.

    Assigning root causes to Alcohol, Cannabis and Speeding, while at the same time making those definitions far looser than the law permits, is not a good strategy, and IMO fuels complacency among everyone else. I'm not above the drink drive limit, so I'm safe. I'm not about the speed limit, so I'm safe. Legal ≠ Safe.

    image.png image.png

    https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r4.1-research-reports/safe-road-use/contributory-factors-and-driver-fatalities-examining-key-dangerous-behaviours.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=6d8cfbbb_3



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not an awful idea to be fair. Quite a good one I'd argue in fact. Again exceptions to emergencies needed etc but that's fairly easy to implement after the event



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    I wonder if there are any figures for the amount of road accidents that occur whilst a driver is on their mobile phone.

    A driver travelling at 30 km/h who glances at their phone for 3 seconds will travel blind for 25 metres. That's nearly a quarter of a football pitch.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,259 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yes, but if you accept the argument that there are dangerous stretches of road, you would think they should disproportionately 'catch out' drivers who are unfamiliar with that road. because drivers familiar with it should know it's dangerous; but it'd be interesting to see if that actually played out in that manner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Construction sites aren't dangerous. Construction workers are. Who needs health and safety standards, just blame idiot people



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Hyperbollix


    Agree. And I'd go one further and say it's a cultural thing. We are never going to be a Norway or Switzerland with the associated low road fatalities. Prudence, restraint, law abidance whatever you want to call it, is just not an Irish trait. As Mary Harney said, we are closer to Boston than Berlin.

    The cute hoor culture is pervasive in Ireland where everyone from the road sweeper to the top civil servant believes everyone is bending the rules and "shure til be grand" - We only believe in rules when they are seen to be unavoidable with heavy penalties for breaking them. In those circumstances, we are model, docile citizens. If the rules are seen to be not enforced or a low chance of penalty, it's mass law breaking. It's the Irish way.



This discussion has been closed.
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