Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

osarusan · 02-04-2024 08:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964336#Comment_121964336

It's not the mods fault that this site may be dying, it's people like this.

I'd add an extra layer onto that myself.

Yes indeed, there are any number of posters who post utterly bad faith arguments in the way that you've described. Their MO is the same all the time - post a load of crap, get proven wrong, and then disappear, or just repeat it over and over anyway, or claim victimhood.

But again, how mods/admin deal with them, or, in reality, don't deal with them, is absolutely part of the problem. As long as they are careful not to insult other poster, they are allowed to do this over and over and over again, to the point that other posters stop engaging with them, with the thread, with the forum, with the site.

I would say that in general, Boards is truly awful at identifying which posters are more trouble than they are worth, by which I mean: which posters damage the community more than they contribute to it.

02-04-2024 08:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964125#Comment_121964125

There are one or two who have burner phones for other purpose and do go to this kind of trouble, it’s not trouble to them because they are using burner phones for other reasons anyway. Those kinds can wreak havoc on the site because they are unpleasant individuals to begin with and enjoy the power they wield over the site.

notAMember · 02-04-2024 08:27AM

It's the crap user interface, plus inconsistent modding. I use another board for a specialised interest field, which is really well moderated, it's a joy to use. There's no favouritism, trolls are not tolerated, very pleasant environment, and the interface itself is a lot easier.

In contast, this one is crashy, slow to load, really annoying blinking ads. you type a message and it bombs out. Finding your threads or posts is not intuitive. Trending posts isn't on the front page when you log in, is a pain. It's like a relic of bad design. And the mods are not trained / all behave like their section has different rules to the other sections.

Maybe there is a way to set it up to work, but I have not invested the time to find it, and it's not obvious. Bookmarking discussions seems to do nothing. Only stay around because of the very specific regionality.

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 08:28AM

I completely agree with the last few posts. It is a huge site, with a huge user base. There are 1000s of good posters who never cause an issue. These posters are capable of disagreeing or debating a point without resorting to childish insults. However, there is a sizeable minority who can't seem to post without taking digs or (possibly) thinking they're hilarious in their insults.

The moderators do what they can with these types of posters but honestly sometimes it IS easier to let things go, especially if a thread has moved on by the time you see the post. Applying a warning automatically invites a PM response from an "outraged" user. But I absolutely agree that short to the point warnings should be used "Uncivil" "personal abuse" etc. and little or no discussion after that.

It might increase the number of DRPs but if it's a clear cut case of "uncivil" etc then there's no dispute!

I would be in favour of a zero tolerance policy for a while on those types of posters. 1 point warning upped to 2 point warnings for subsequent posts. It wouldn't be long either focussing the minds or actually getting rid of those nuisance posters who ruin healthy discussion.

I know some people will be appalled at such an idea and shouts of "power hungry" mods would probably reach an all time high, but if it's made known that there's zero tolerance on muppetry and everyone is treated the same then it would (should!) quickly change the tone of Boards.ie.

No doubt there'll be a slew of replies telling me why this is unfair and will target some and not others etc. But I imagine the silent majority would welcome the measures.

EmmetSpiceland · 02-04-2024 08:36AM

There, really, should be stronger sanctions on users who, continually, attack other posters by accusing them of being re-regs, trolls or in some sort of “sponsored” conspiracy for, simply, having a different opinion to the consensus.

This type of user is a real problem on the site. It should be ok to disagree, without discussion we’re left, only, with an “echo chamber”. Which is what these types seem to want.

02-04-2024 08:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964408#Comment_121964408

The above would be fine, if it was applied consistently, and equally, but with moderation I often find it's not.

I guess the best way to put it is, it's like when a bully targets another kid in school, and completely gets away with it, but the kid who stands up to the bully ends up being the one who gets in trouble.

🤷‍♀️

02-04-2024 08:38AM

There is a lot of butt hurt going on from people who hold extreme outlier views but believe themselves to represent the silent majority. Its always the same individuals claiming persecution. The moderators are fairly representative of the profile of society but to these individuals they seem extreme and biased because the posters own views are so extreme. How do you deal with these types, I really don't know short of simple bans.

02-04-2024 08:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964406#Comment_121964406

plus inconsistent modding. I use another board for a specialised interest field, which is really well moderated,

I'd say a lot of the modding complaints and whinging comes in places like AH and Current Affairs.

These are not "specialised interest" fields. They are very broad and can be very subjective and thus where people feel their points are being ignored, all the other posters are too left/right wing and the mods don't like my point of view.

That doesn't happen in more specialised interest froms like DIY, or Broadband etc.

02-04-2024 08:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964430#Comment_121964430

that would be handy alright. Also for posters who very erroneously accuse other posters of doxxing, then dox other posters themselves.

02-04-2024 08:56AM

This is the very crux of the issue here. It’s difficult being even-handed, we are all human, but the question should be asked in any mod’s head, “If I sanction Y have I also sanctioned X who is even more part of the problem?” X should be given the warning up to thread ban if they repeatedly are the subject of a warning, the responder, provided not very uncivil, should be given a verbal that they are skating on thin ice.

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 08:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964432#Comment_121964432

That's why my suggestion would be zero tolerance. Even a whiff of "uncivil" warn the poster. I honestly believe a couple of days of it would wipe out a lot of the behaviour. The 'school bully' will be dealt with and others won't react because they'll see its being dealt with.

I've said it before (and was scoffed at 😉) fast moving threads can be difficult to moderate. Threads move on.

But I think if it's made clear that there's zero tolerance then moderators have to know they have the backing of their Category Moderators and Admins to go zero tolerance.

It will upset some, obviously. But I feel it's something that's needed at this stage. People will either cop on or leave. Win-Win either way!

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 09:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964402#Comment_121964402

There are people who set up accounts and troll for a pastime! It's a hobby to them. We should not make signing up to the site a more difficult process because that just targets the wrong people.

The trolls will still continue to engage in their hobby and genuine posters won't bother if it's too much of a faff.

The only thing everyone can do is ignore and report. They get caught pretty quickly (often before they even gets chance to post!). I don't think rereg trolls who get to post a post or 2 before being banned are the biggest problem on the site. One click gets rid of them. It's the posters regularly disrupting discussions with nonsense that need to be targeted.

Furze99 · 02-04-2024 09:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964295#Comment_121964295

That is exactly the experience that I noted earlier up the thread. I recently brought up a case in dispute resolution as the same moderator warned me for 'anecdote' in a quite separate thread that had no such warning on page 1. But aside from that, this criteria about anecdote is clearly a means to censor certain posts and should have no place on boards imho.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964408#Comment_121964408

I've no doubt that you maybe correct when it comes to forums like personal relationships or nature. I think though your 'zero tolerance' approach would be impossible to police effectively on more contentious forums. Put simply, people have different views - one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. So such 'zero tolerance' would inevitably end up as censorship.

In face such a 'zero tolerance' strategy has echoes of the current ministers 'Hate Speech' legislation. I suspect that if you ran a poll on the 'Hate Speech', you'd find that many posters here from all backgrounds would have reservations.

Leg End Reject · 02-04-2024 09:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964498#Comment_121964498

A zero tolerance approach is fine, but before it's implemented you need to weed out the very odd rogue mod.

A mod sending a snotty PM to tell you you've been warned for being uncivil, or in response to a genuine query about the warning gets people's backs up.

EmmetSpiceland · 02-04-2024 09:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964458#Comment_121964458

Doxxing should be a capital offence on this site, and I believe is taken incredibly seriously by the mods/admins. It’s just a shame that they can’t police it when it’s committed on “other” sites.

An excellent mod, poster and person was run off this very site by such actions. And the “Radio” forum has been the lesser for it since.

Thankfully, the suspect in that “case” has, since, been banned from the site, but for other reasons, and, I believe, banned for re-regging and trying to continue their obsessive, and deeply personal, campaign against a, well known, public figure.

The less doxxers online the better, as far as I’m concerned.

02-04-2024 09:27AM

tried to quote someone again, but when posted quote had disappeared ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

02-04-2024 09:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964569#Comment_121964569

well you yourself thought it perfectly alright to dox me. The person you pointed out as myself and another poster doxxing had already posted their own name very visibly on this forum. As in “my real name is Aaron”. But it didn’t fit the narrative of accusation.

nullzero · 02-04-2024 09:35AM

Surely moderation will soon be carried out by AI?

A non biased (assuming it isn't written by people without a particular axe to grind) moderation tool that allows discussion to occur without the editorialising that has driven so many users away from this site (yes this is a thing, just cast an eye towards the sites created by ex users of this platform for clarification of this).

If boards is faltering it is because it is pushing it's core demographic away, we all know discussion boards aren't attracting younger users and that the Internet is moving away from the discussion board format etc but at the same time boards has made it clear that certain opinions really aren't welcome here and while that's the sites perogative you can't be shocked when traffic decreases over time.

If boards wants to continue to be relevant it needs to have a more agnostic, non partisan outlook.

EmmetSpiceland · 02-04-2024 09:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964609#Comment_121964609

Excuse me? I have never doxxed anyone. That is a scurrilous accusation that should be withdrawn.

I never “pointed out” you for anything either. You’re just making stuff up.

02-04-2024 09:38AM

the trouble with more people doing stints as mods is they are open to “revenge posting” as happened on this thread re my time modding. Who in the name of God would want to sign up for this?

02-04-2024 09:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964598#Comment_121964598

Also had a similar experience with my original account.

02-04-2024 09:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964627#Comment_121964627

You have made absolutely scurrilous accusations of former poster ButtersSuki who DID NOT DOX anyone and who has not redress here.

You accused me very slyly as a former mod for helping drive a fellow mod who voluntarily left of his own accord, adult that he is.

02-04-2024 09:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964498#Comment_121964498

(Added this to my last post, but decided to edit and post it separately as BBOC had already responded….)

With all due respect, @Big Bag of Chips you've said yourself that you moderate two forums, you do it to the letter of their charters, and you don't go into some of the other more contentious areas.

I think we all learned in this thread that very few of the issues in moderation get far as the eyes of the admins.

Maybe it would be better to allocate some time (a few weeks?) to visit and review some of these areas and see for yourself what goes on so you can get the full picture, and also review the charters, before making any changes.

I will add, that if Mods need to feel the support of CMods and Admins, then posters need to feel they will be supported by them to, if they report being treated in an unfair manner.

Right now, how many posters in this thread have said they won't even bother trying to dispute anything? Why do you really think that is?

EmmetSpiceland · 02-04-2024 10:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964663#Comment_121964663

That is, patently, untrue. I have never accused any user of doxxing or you, as a former mod.

I have mentioned a suspected user, being very careful not to name names. Something you, yourself have just done.

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 10:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964546#Comment_121964546

I'm talking about zero tolerance on abuse, uncivil posting etc. Not on opinions.

It's a huge forum with many many many voices. Nothing is going to be 100% foolproof. But I think a good start is shutting down the bitchy comments that simply derail threads. These are the types of posters that people have most complained about on this thread.

That's a start.

02-04-2024 10:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964547#Comment_121964547

Only, the rogues have now been forewarned, and will be on their best behaviour after this thread.

For a while, anyway.

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 10:10AM

@EmmetSpiceland and @[Deleted User] if you have a personal dispute please take it to PM. This is not the thread for it.

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 10:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964694#Comment_121964694

I will add, that if Mods need to feel the support of CMods and Admins, then posters need to feel they will be supported by them to, if they report being treated in an unfair manner.

A poster above rightly pointed out that if a CMod or Admin thinks a Mod has crossed a line in their warning with unnecessary language etc the warning is more likely to be overturned. So DRPs do get overturned. And posters are often sided with against the actions of a moderator.

I hear loads of people complaining that DRP is a waste of time. Yet decisions do get overturned. Regularly. Not every decision does, but many do.

Big Bag of Chips · 02-04-2024 10:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964750#Comment_121964750

So that's a win... For a while.

Did you ever consider a career in politics Ezeuol?! You'd be fabulous in the opposition. You've argued every single suggestion and contribution I've made to the thread 😉

Is it not good that an active Admin is on the thread. Listening to posters, hearing complaints, making suggestions? Rome wasn't built in a day. According to some Boards.ie was dying 8 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. There's an ingrained culture here that will take a lot of effort to weed out.

It won't be done in one swoop.

02-04-2024 10:19AM

I went looking for access to the Soccer forum again. Banned now going on a year for little or nothing. It's personal with the mod over there and I won't be getting access back at all by the looks of it. Shamobuc.

Losing posters and not able to attract new ones yet they some of them can't see the wood from the trees.

Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself? [Threadbanned users in 1st post]

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