Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Given we currently have full employment, and full construction employment at that, and that we have a state with billions of euros of excess revenue every year, this needn't be much of a problem. The state could/should step in and use any spare construction capacity that emerges for the much needed building of social and affordable housing units. Get some of the 60,000 households on HAP off of that and save taxpayer euros in the medium/long term.

But given the housing policies our current government has used to date we'll probably instead just get more tax breaks for builders or FTBs in an attempt to attract in more private sector money. They've proven completely allergic to the state actually building.

the time to do that was 10 years ago - now the properties are simply poor value and way over priced - hence the drop in construction despite full employment and higher prices

and now after 10 interest rate rises mortgage arrears are rising too

My point wasn't that the government should buy properties from private sectort developers. Thats what we're currently doing, and its both a huge waste of government resources and unfair on people trying to buy their own homes now competing with the government using their own tax euros to bid against them.

My point was that if the crash in private sector investment in the construction sector results in any spare capacity that capacity should be used by the government to build long overdue social/affordable housing units to reduce the large numbers on very expensive HAP.

Higher prices equalling higher supply is exactly the conclusion from that report. Therefore, as a corollary, lower prices does not necessarily mean lower supply and so it is consistent to target increased supply of housing and lower prices. One of the main opposition parties was ridiculed for calling for such an outcome recently but based on recent political events, that opposition party’s policy may be one we all need to familiarise ourselves with very soon!

I mean, you're saying churches have no importance beyond a place of worship.

Sure knock down Newgrange and build a load of flats on the Hill of Tara while you're at it.

There's the added bonus of having a graveyard nearby.

There are 2,646 churches in Ireland. A small minority of them (like the major cathedrals) have historical and architectural significance like Newgrange and should be preserved, absolutely. But the vast majority have about as much cultural importance as a local community hall.

Mass attendance, and the number of priests in Ireland, have both been on a continual decline for decades because the Catholic church is dying in Ireland. At some point in the near future the use of prime land in the center of communities for large, empty, unused, buildings will have to be reassessed.

If there was a hockey stadium on a large plot of land in the center of a town, that was only ever 10% full, that very few people from the town attended, and was rarely in use, would you object to it being put to better use? Because its the same broad problem facing churches in years to come - underutilized prime land at a time of housing scarcity.

80% odd of churches will likely be repurposed to better use for the people and communities who actually live near them. Purpose built senior housing as suggested above would be one of the better uses of the land.

There are vast empty lands ffs..where did church come into the mix on this thread

Not slowed down if councils employ their own builders and construction teams, therefore increasing the size of the construction imdustry.

If they cant do that due to staff shortages, then fewer private developments will get built, bit at least the public know they will be delivered to the private market.

Better 1000 private apartments are built and delivered to the private market than 1500 apparently private apartments are buit and 500 - 800 goto the social at the last minute when they near completion.

Some complexes are not bought by the council. They are only rented & so still belong to the developer.

Someone with a chip about the church.

Take a look at Google maps and you'll see plenty of vacant lots in Dublin City centre. They're empty for decades. There's a half acre on Abbey street alone with nothing on it.

There are also plenty of vacant buildings falling down around the capital.

There's plenty of land with zero buildings and plenty of land owned by the state.

But if you want to destroy churches to build apartments then be my guest. You'd have an easier time building a 15 story in Phoenix Park.

While it would be near impossible politically to target under-used churches for redevelopment; I'd be very surprised if we don't see more closing and sold soon.

Bluntly, the dioceses will want to get shift of the 50s-70s thousands capacity churches that exist in suburbia of the cities before they get added to the register of protected structures. They usually have tiny attendances (under 10% of capacity in many cases), are expensive to heat and maintain; and if they get listed, they become extremely difficult to demolish.

Finglas West is only the first, I suspect. But it'll be the religions decisions as to where and what they sell/demolish; not anyone else.

Actually, if someone in the various councils started making strong hints about listing them, that might speed up decisions. So there is a way of pushing it, just a bit dodgily.