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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pcardin


    is it only me, but I hear Skabeyeva or Simonyan when reading this 'article' from Marianne. No matter what rogber says or will say but it does sound awful much like ruSSian propaganda. I'm not saying situation on Ukrainian side is bad, just the wording in the article is like ruSSia propaganda ABC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pcardin


    Daniel Křetínský - what an appropriate surname it is. :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    What is your realistic alterative? Giving Ukraine what it needs to win the war isn't going to happen.

    At best Ukraine will be able to slowly retreat this year, if the 800k shells start to appear soon, at worse they will rapidly start to lose ground once the ground hardens.

    Any chance of pushing Russia back is just a pipe dream. It was a long shot 12 months ago, as I and a few other tried to point out to people here, but there is zero chance now.

    A Russian collapse from within is possible but Putin seems to have strengthened his position over the course of the war so that seems less and less likely as well - unless the current skirmishes are better than we have been told.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    What is your realistic alterative? Giving Ukraine what it needs to win the war isn't going to happen

    They need weapons to outlast Putin, and we should supply them for as long as the Ukrainian people wish to fight. It's as realistic as it gets without Ukraine simply surrendering yet more of their borders. The Vietcong didn't "win" their war by conventional means, they simply outlasted the Americans' ability or interest to prosecute it where it became too costly, too hated by the public back home.

    Now Obviously there's a huge difference between a democratic republic's folly, with all its checks and boundaries limiting power, and a functional king who clearly sees 400k deaths (and growing) as a reasonable cost for absorbing Ukraine back into the USSR. You do see the cracks forming all the same though.

    But equally the answer, from the West's point of view, can't be just to reward Putin either. Reward him for a second time at that; he's eating at Ukraine slowly piece by piece. Otherwise Georgia, Moldova and - yes it's possible - the Eastern borders of the EU will have to consider their next steps. We're in a critical phase of the war where yes, Ukraine has shown itself as being at its weakest in months -but that has nearly entirely the fault of the West, and the continuing dumpster fire that is the Cult of MAGA Stateside.

    It's an impossible scenario to be in, but I don't think surrender can be considered anymore - and the bullish rhetoric from Macron suggests it's beginning to dawn on Western leaders too, egged on by that aforementioned mess going on in the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Why did you quote me???

    Edit: never mind, just caught up with your follow up post giving some info on them. Cheers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    "The ordinary people you meet need to understand this."

    Oh yes, strong echoes there of Leo, Roddy and the government & NGO reps generally wrt the recent referendum votes, that the only problem was that "The ordinary people you meet need to understand this."

    Well the ordinary people did understand the referendum proposals and thrashed them. The ordinary people also understand that it's untenable to have fit and able bodied Ukrainians sheltering here when their country needs them.

    So take your "The ordinary people you meet need to understand this." and go think again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    No worries, sorry for the confusion; bit of a pointless segue I dragged into.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭Field east


    Have you FORGOTTON that Putin said that the biggest MISTAKE - political , I assume - made by any country in the history of the political world was the DECISION to break up the USSR. And now his sole mission in life is to restore the ‘OLD , defunct /gone USSR to its former glory. He has started with Moldova, then moved on to Georgia then onto Ukraine while all along he is doing his ‘damnest ‘to weaken any country that is a threat to him by cyber attacks, spreading false information, etc, etc, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Paddigol



    There's nothing logical or just about it. Even less so your bizarre false equivalence in dragging in some half baked constitutional referendum point. That's all there is to say to your post. You conveniently ignore the clearly explained responses given to you month after month, disappear for a while, and come back raising the exact same proposal. If you're going to ignore the responses given to you, then ignoring is definitely the solution I'll reach for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    Ireland needs to wake up and shake the flies off its face and join NATO now.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    They have been doing this kind of thing since the Soviet Union times. Apparently Patrushev is one of the masterminds behind it.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,306 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Putin isn't looking like someone going to negotiate

    Sounds like he's banking on Ukraine to run out of ammo and then roll in unopposed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    That's what happens when you bring your vodka to work.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,306 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Yes. If the people you meet don't know or understand that it's not legally possible to round up people and deport them after giving them asylum, they need to brush up on the laws of the land. As "logical" and "just" as you think it is, it's not on. What do you do with the many who don't wat to go back and fight? If they wanted to fight, they wouldn't have fled.

    The attempted links between sending people into a warzone and voting in a bullshit referendum is madness. But you're point is half valid that people understood it, didn't want it and voted that way. The actual equivalent of what you're proposing is that the people understand they'd be sent to a war, don't want it, but are sent anyway! Sounds very Russian



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    There is a lot of questions raised in that piece that are valid despite the bias.

    Are the Americans getting low on weapons? ( that would be insanely classified id imagine)

    is that the real reason why the aid has stopped?

    why can’t Biden executive order the weapons to Ukraine?? He is still the president. Is Trump/ Mike Johnson a smoke screen??

    The sanctions might be working but they certainly haven’t crushed Russia. And if we had known 2 years ago what we know now we would have been underwhelmed with their results.

    The strategy of slowly weakening Russia is flawed because it has given them ample time to ramp up their disinformation and propaganda campaigns to change attitudes in the west and this has yielded serious results for them. And which is not being countered in the west.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    There's so much BS floating about it is easy to get caught out and impossible to properly research every link.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Because that's the strategy by way of the GOP in America ATM: there's no secret that the GOP and the conservative right has ideologically sat itself beside Putin's "illiberal" Russia, most visibly seen through Tucker Carlson's segment, or Trump's open talk of waving NATO onwards. Take America off the board, with an eye towards Trump getting the win in November (though all the plan really needs is continuing GOP control of Congress or the Senate), let Ukrainian ammunition dwindle then send the tanks back towards Kyiv.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Haha.

    Absolutely fuking not.

    Trump could easily win and do who the fuk knows what.

    Erdogan is openly siding with hamas.

    Orban is in Putins pocket.

    Greece and Turkey are permanently at each others throats. Cyprus is still disputed.

    And then we have UKs legacy in the north. Ireland cant ally with that. During Brexit their foreign minister Patel was speaking of leveraging food supply routes against Ireland while alluding mockingly to the famine.

    So 6 batsht situations in that sham of an organization.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    IF and I am veering ( as in sadly concluding ) toward WHEN trump starts his new tenure in the White House Jan 25 I could see his first trip abroad to be to Moscow and sitting around a table with Putin and Lukashenko to plan out Ukraines downfall and then plan whats next.

    You are also correct in saying Trump doesnt need to actually become President once he at least has control of the Congress which HE has now but also try gain control of the Senate also. Right now he is de facto running the US

    Post edited by aidanodr on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes I raise it occasionally when other posters here bemoan the lack of practical support for Ukraine from the EU and us here in Ireland. As it is something we could actually do.

    Just because you don't like the idea for some reason, does not invalidate it. What I express is a mild version of what is heard up and down the length of the country as in 'what is that xyz f* doing here, when they clearly should be over in Ukr doing their bit?'

    If you're not hearing this, then you have your heads well stuck in the sand. Or deliberately not hearing it.

    Clearly we need to offer temporary shelter to genuine Ukr war refugees and I support that. But nothing, nothing undermines that public support more than seeing a proportion of said refugees who have no business being here. The Ukr ambassador should be taking a far stronger and more public role in managing this.

    The analogy with the recent votes is very apt. Yous are like those who insist we are all stupid and must just lap up what is best for us. Sorry, that's not how democracy works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    So tackle the issue then.. play the ball if you're so certain of your position. You know the site rules as well as I..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,997 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    I doubt you hear this "up and down the length of the country" as it is too much of a coincidence that it suits your narrative. But even if there's a glimmer of truth in it, it's more a reflection of the company you choose to keep than the reality. The reality being Ukraine needing military aid; not returned refugees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Go back and read the dozens of nuanced replies to all of your previous attempts to push this mantra. Why should people be forced to repeat themselves ad nauseum when you'll just ignore their points, go away for a bit, and then come back asking the same question? Are their site rules against disingenuous posts?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,473 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    So much for if the US stop supplying Ukraine the war will stop according to the MAGA lunatics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Why would I do that? And what's that got to do with able bodied Ukrainian war refugees?

    Surely you of many people, should know the difference by now??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,306 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    We can't actually do it. We cannot, in any way shape or form, return asylum seekers to Ukraine (or anywhere for that matter) after we've agreed to bring them in and support them in their efforts to remains safe and well and away from an active war zone. We can't do it. It's not possible. It's illegal. Do you understand that? If not, read up. if you do, why oh why do you keep asking the same thing?

    I don't like the reason because if someone has left a warzone, got asylum in a country to then pack them up and send them off back to it. Ignore the legality of it, but it's cruel too. I think of myself where if I had to up sticks and leave my home because some hoor invaded and was intent on killing me, it would be cruel to then send me back there after agreeing to protect me in my new location.

    I hear some people mention this angle too of course. Doesn't mean they are right (they aren't).

    How do you determine a "genuine war refugee"? Aren't they all genuine from Ukraine - the country is being invaded!

    I don't know how you compare sending refugees back to a war and voting no in a referendum. We are all not stupid, but by jaysus a growing percentage of the population are getting thicker as the years pass, fueled by entitlement, bitterness and spending too much time in echo chambers to confirm their beliefs.

    This should be parked here. You're repeated assertion is not happening no matter how much you come out with the same rubbish.



This discussion has been closed.
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