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Random Renewables Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,053 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    We just need to concentrate on getting as much PV up as possible. Local use is nice, but not worth any complication or extra investment reducing the pay back time (this is bad for the tax payer). The rest can be done along the way at grid level (storage, grid fortification, interconnectors, etc.)



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk




  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Stumbled across Open Infrastructure Map the other day.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger




  • Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Zoom in and see lots more detail. On the right hand side, you can click on 'Layers' and see different types of infrastructure.

    Zoom in on County Monaghan: https://openinframap.org/#9.16/54.1822/-7.0123 I have been systematically mapping every power line and transformer and am about 40% done.

    In south County Down: https://openinframap.org/#10.07/54.1491/-6.0694 from Newry to Newcastle, you can see where the Mourne Mountains are completely uninhabited (and unpowered).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I gotta say, I really like these types of projects to make this kind of data available in an open source format that's properly preserved online

    There's too much reliance on digital mega corporations to keep providing services as long as it suits them

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    If you have a 6kw inverter and a neighbour with the 6c EV tariff you could potentially with the help of a AC->DC converter pump 18KWh a night into the grid and reap the 22c FIT

    This would knock 86e a month off your bill by doing pretty much feck all and without degrading batteries. You could go halves with the neighbour. Depending on the neighbour's import capacity they could possibly still charge their EV at the same time



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,573 ✭✭✭deezell


    Is FIT flat rate over 24 hours? Would they not wonder where it was coming from in the small hours?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Yes. Your microgeneration source could be wind or hydro either.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Interesting tidbit, they mentioned 82,000 microgeneration customers which gives an average of 3.66kW per microgeneration setup

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,053 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The sun here in Lucan shines every day from 5AM all the way until 2AM 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,053 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The Netherlands now have the highest per capita installed PV. Surpassed Australia. Unreal stuff.

    This means of course that on any sunny day, the flexible electricity rates are negative. So you stop your PV inverter and get paid to charge your battery, your car, heat your hot water and use any other electricity you like. Can't bloody wait for that here too. The actual realised profit over 2023 of a system with just a 20kWh battery (and no PV) over there was €2000 (the system costs €8000 installed)





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭DC999


    And '200MW of solar power with which is not exported to the grid but used on site' - what's that I wonder? Something that never hits the grid with any export. Likes of solar on a data center that will always use more than solar can provide, or a factory with very heavy electrical usage?



  • Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I've not seen any solar at a data centre - they have lots of gas turbines and air conditioning units that make it impractical. Some do have long-term contracts to buy hundreds of MW of wind.

    It would most likely be a variety of non-residential sites, including factories, farms and commercial / retail buildings. I understand that Eli Lilly in Kinsale take 100% of the power from Dunderrow Solar Farm. Butlers Chocolates in Dublin and a truck dealership in Monaghan have a huge amount of solar on their roofs. Lidl have put solar panels on a lot of their roofs.

    There is a program to fit solar to many schools.

    Up north and in Britain, a huge number of non-residential buildings have solar.

    Post edited by Victor on


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd say it's exactly that, something with enough power consumption to use up all of the solar power available

    Saw a community swimming pool in Arklow which was covered in solar panels a few years ago. Must have been something like 10-15kWp installed

    I'd say they'll still use all that power even on sunny days heating the pool and water for showers, etc.

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,801 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Factory less that you think, we have plenty of 50kW relative humidity handlers, there is a massive start up but after that it bottoms out especially if on shift (24/7)

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    The reason you don't see many panels on a data center is poor design due to HVACs on the roof, and they said air cooling was good 🤦‍♂️

    Used to work in a data center a while back, if you see the size of those diesel generators, you would cry.

    Maybe we can say they want to house some refugees in there, quickest way to erase it from the map 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    in addition the power from ballymacarney solar farm is bought and used by microsoft. 

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I feel like a lot of office buildings might be in the 200MW non exporting

    A bunch of offices have thrown some solar panels on the roof to get low energy ratings, but given the relatively limited roof space to floor space they're probably self using all of the energy

    Particularly true since most office managers seem to want to have the lights and heating on all the time even when there's only 4 people working there

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Even large buildings housing datacenters just don't have the real estate to support the number of panels required for their power use. If you ballpark the math, your average panel is 1.1m x 1.7m (roughly) and that gives 400w. So you have ~4.6m^2 for 1kwp.

    Here's where it gets a bit scary - so a 1Mwp would be 4600m^2 and these facilities could be using 50-100MW. So you could see a datacenter needing 4,600,000m^2 of solar farm real estate. Yeah......4.6Km^2 !!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭DC999


    4.6Km^2 of solar per data center (back of the envelope maths). Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah it's a bit of a problem, often given in the context of Ireland but really it's a global issue. We're constantly consuming more data which requires more data centers and more power consumption

    They're even looking at putting the servers underwater for easier cooling, which seems like an environmental disaster waiting to happen

    One thing which could really reduce the energy footprint of them would be district heating. Even in winter they require cooling and they should be piping that heat to towns nearby to give people free heating and hot water

    It doesn't reduce the consumption of the data centre by itself but it would offset the overall energy usage if they recovered it

    I imagine the residents of Athenry would have been more positive about having an Apple data centre nearby if they'd been offered free heating for life

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    plenty of other businesses think outside the box like that. london underground use the heat in the tube to generate heat and hot water for apartments, leisure centres adjacent to a station. no reason why data centers cannot be used in a similar way.


    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Exactly, it really should be a requirement of the planning permission

    There's a whole bunch of data centers and factories in West Dublin which are beside some of the biggest housing estates, prime target for district heating

    Of course because it involves building infrastructure and centralised planning it'll never happen

    I really feel like this country is the graveyard of good ideas sometimes 😬

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    There are a couple of primary considerations for the location of datacenters, but access to cheap power (Norway + hydro) etc and then nice temperate climate like Ireland (not too cold in the winter, not too hot in the summer) and then lastly ideally not setup on a geological fault line as some of them

    Like the idea of recouping energy and pumping it back into the community like heating swiming pools, should be a requirement of planning permissions. Something I saw recently.....

    Energy from data centres could heat UK swimming pools after green investment | Energy | The Guardian

    a good start. Problem I fear is that many of these places are fairly far from high density populations, so you have big transmission losses if you try to do something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I don't think they're that isolated, take my example of west Dublin as one

    If you're going with easy access to power then something like a town is a pretty good starting point for preexisting infrastructure

    I agree for a sprawling metropolis like London they're too far from the centre to be of use

    But it'd be interesting to see how much waste heat could be diverted to a town like Athenry from a single DC

    Of course the problem with abundant free heat is that it encourages wasteful behaviour and would almost encourage the DCs to consume as much energy as possible

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,053 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @bullit_dodger - "Problem I fear is that many of these places are fairly far from high density populations, so you have big transmission losses if you try to do something."

    You might be wrong there. Most of the big data centers are in my back yard near Grange Castle, in other words directly surrounded by major population and industrial centers like Lucan, Tallaght, Clondalkin, Citywest, etc. That's at least 300k people within 5km and who knows how many businesses needing lots of heating. Pfizer alone is less than 1km away from some of them and employes 5k people last time I looked.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Ohh - I know exactly where they are - I've been in one of them plenty of times (which will remain nameless) :-)

    What I meant was that we in Ireland don't have the same high density population places that you would have in larger european cities. We tend to like owning our own houses and not have apartment blocks. Yeah, 100,000+ people in Tallaght is a sizeable number of people but it's made up primarily of estates of semi-detacted houses. Sure technically you can hook these individual houses up with pipework to take advantage of of community heating, but the losses would be quite substantial compared to hooking up a group of apartment blocks with 1000 apartments in them. Sure, there are some apt blocks not too far off the square in Tallaght that spring to mind, but you get my point.

    It's not an easy problem to solve, certainly harder to do as a retrofit for new datacenters/etc

    Wasn't there something trialed in Tallaght some years back? Vague recollection.......



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