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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Biden can bypass Congress if the US is selling arms to Ukraine. Munitions awaiting disposal may not be covered, likewise selling them for 99c each.

    Why they allowed the lend lease act to lapse without even being used once is baffling. I assumed that was the fallback plan if Congress didn't approve new funding. It still gave Ukraine munitions, but they would need to return or pay for them eventually (could be written off at a later date). Key point being Ukraine wouldn't be left short.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Europe has given up on defending itself or even bothering to try.


    European NATO state spending is a disgrace, it's not just Trump pointing out that, Zelensky must be driven half mad by the lack of effort and especially the lack of will.


    NATO at this stage is just America and the rest using American funds to mask their own disinterest in European security.


    Denmark has given far more military aid to Ukraine than France, Italy and Spain combined.


    France has one of the best armies in the world, Denmark is a country with a population similar to the state here.


    Russia want to eke out a kinda victory in Ukraine and Western Europe doesn't want to stop them enough.


    Even the slightest effort by European States would change that, that isn't going to happen at this stage though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    That's not going to happen, Trump can't force Europeans to take their own security seriously.


    If he pushes it, threatens to leave NATO, withdraw US troops from Europe, Western Europe will just continue as is and not bother with security. There is nothing that will change that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    ~$400 billion spent by European countries on defense isn't the definition of giving up or not bothering. Yes it's half that of the US, but the European countries don't have to service and maintain over 5000 nukes, 7 nuclear aircraft carriers, 14 ballistic missile subs etc... The European countries want to defend themselves, the US wants and has global reach, that comes with a cost.

    If Zelenskyy wanted European countries to abide by that 2% target (or the point your making, having European counties armed to the gills,, he wouldn't be getting European counties depleting their stocks to support Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I don't know why America couldn't sell all their cluster Munitions to Ukraine that they themselves are banned from using, I think someone said they have 6 million in storage. Like that would of probably saved adviika from falling. Sell them even 1 dollar for 1 cluster artillery shell. Least it fills in the gaps and would help Ukraine considerably. It's just the delay if Ukraine do get the 60 billion in US aid. Where will the front lines be then? What will the state of some of Ukrainian forces be in that have had to fight without the necessary artillery etc? They have lost a lot of people who should not have died if they were given all they should of been given and will lose more by the time IF there given the aid they deserve. I honestly think Ukraine need to drop there mobilisation age and recruit younger ages, it's more if Ukraine don't get the 60 billion US say by the summer what way will their forces be by then. I just wonder is Ukraine just holding out for the 60 billion US aid so they don't need to mobilise the younger people which I can understand but if there not given it there going to have to. It's more if the aid is not given when would this call have to be made.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The US isn't banned from using them as the US never signed up to the Convention on Cluster Munitions. The US do have a ban on selling cluster munitions with a dud rate higher than 1%, but I believe Biden can and did overrule that in the case for Ukraine.

    The issue is money, the shells maybe worthless to the US, which costs them money to store them or dispose of them, but Biden can't go selling them for under the book value. Ukraine doesn't have billions to buy them from the US. The Money Ukraine get from the EU would have restrictions. Pay the civil service, pensions etc.... The money the EU designated for military aid for Ukraine looks to have to remain in the EU. So no buying from the US etc...

    An EU country could back fill their artillery stock with US stock and send their own shells to Ukraine, however cluster shells are banned in all but, I think Poland. It's a fucked up situation. Give Ukraine the money and let Ukraine buy what it needs from what ever country it needs to buy from. This keeping the money within the EU is hampering Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Ahhh thanks for clearing that up as I was wondering why they couldn't sell the Cluster Munitions to Ukraine on the cheap just to get rid of them and could of helped Ukraine considerably.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,391 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    "Some" dumb things "long ago"?

    I do not think for a second that to die in prison is normal thing but to present him as a martyr for democracy is questionable. And if you are firm believer of posibility that people can change and deserve second chance then we can talk about quite a lot of them who may be worthy of that thought. Change and second chance is not very popular over in the west. Any western politician with his baggage would be already cancelled and pretty much done because of what he said and believed not that "long ago".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,391 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    France show long time ago that they only provide "help" if it is manufactured in France and someone else pay for it. Similar situation is going on now with Czech president. Only talk without anything concrete.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,391 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Cluster munition is not something I would call as a help. If you do not believe then look at that kind of help still maiming people in Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc... More than 50 years after that help was received.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭eire4


    I am of the opinion at this point we just need to shut the whole thing down and kick them out. No doubt they will do likewise to our embassy in Moscow but thats fine as at this point there is no commercial business for us to be doing there and it's frankly IMHO a waste of our money having an embassy there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭eire4


    Well done Denmark . Setting the right example for all of Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,052 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    They are using them in areas likely riddled with Russian mines. So yes it is a help or rather it is Ukraines call as to whether it is a help or not and they can judge the situation far better than you.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,661 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Your comments are questionable.

    Good you don't think it is "normal" for someone to be imprisoned and (making a charitable assumption here) slowly killed by the state for opposing and causing embarrassment to a ruler. Do you expect credit for that? (seems like it if you had to type it out!)

    He is a martyr (someone who died for a cause/what he believed in).

    I think that is a poor generalisation about the West. Giving people second chances (even politicians) is still popular, particularly in the US. I won't bother to give examples.

    Since social media and its easy ability to whip up witchhunts, there probably is less toleration and more "cancelling" of people who make mistakes. That happens outside the West as well, as I am sure you are aware.

    At least the West (e.g. this country) is not yet imprisoning the political opponents of the govt. on flimsy pretexts and torturing them to death in prison, however much you may dislike the place!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,967 ✭✭✭rogber


    The Western tendency to cancel people because of what they said 10 years ago is stupid and problematic. People should be allowed change and forgiven for past errors (within reason).

    Navalny's right wing views clearly softened over time, let's not forget he was also a product of his culture and just because he didn't wave a rainbow flag and celebrate Ramadan doesn't mean he wasn't a hell of a lot better than the thugs running Russia now and he literally died for exposing the vast corruption in the country and pushing for a more open, liberal society. To me that makes him a hero. If others want to condemn him for failing woke purity tests fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think he has to be seen in his cultural context.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Claims of two more fighter jets downed today. Apparently one fell near Mariupol.





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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,967 ✭✭✭rogber




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭weisses


    I'm wondering what they have in that area that all of a sudden is capable in downing multiple aircraft? .. patriot battery is an option but very risky deploying such a valuable system relatively close to the front lines..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The big problem with cluster munitions is their failure rate, the ones that don't explode on impact, but remain where they landed, armed and highly dangerous, and both the Chinese and Russian ones have the highest failure rates, with the US ones having the lowest failure rates. So bring them on, the areas they will be used in are more than likely saturated with unexploded ordinance by now, and the ones that explode will trigger any other UXO's in the vicinity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,967 ✭✭✭rogber


    Why are you so afraid of a Ukraine that allows debate and dissent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Patriot with PAC 2 missile's. Every now and then Ukraine move one forward. They'd obviously need a load of other air defence units just to protect it so it's a big operation.

    Risky but you've no choice when the enemy is constantly dropping glide bombs on you. Imagine what Ukraine could do if they'd another 4 or 5 patriot batteries.



    S300 are useful but why are America doing this swap. Why not just give the battery directly to Ukraine when there's no active threat to Slovakia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,967 ✭✭✭rogber


    I already asked you to quote where I portrayed Zelensky as anything negative, and you failed to do so. I actually said I think he's done a very good job overall. It's Klitschko who said critical things.

    So I ask again: why are you so afraid of a Ukraine that allows debate and dissent? Do you think the Mayor of Kyiv should be silenced, sacked, labelled unpatriotic, imprisoned? Or what's your proposed solution?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭mikewest


    Or they have made avionics and/or weapons systems upgrades to their existing planes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I guess the use of the F16s would reduce the glide bomb effectiveness?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Am I the only one who finds it difficult to reconcile the brilliant tactical successes with sinking of ships and downing of jets (more today I believe) and the news on Russian advances on the ground.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



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