Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

I buy Bottled water in Bulk and got stung for 6 euro charge today!! Deposit return Scheme- !!

Options
1356

Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Cool.

    And I'd also take it for granted that she also has people a lot closer to her that can help too so I'm glad that you're not continuing with the "what about the disabled" pearl clutching!



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    Your comment would only make sense if the return scheme only applied to bottles of coke etc, instead it doesn,t it also applied to bottled water.

    If the deposit scheme makes people reduce their sugar intake that is most certainly not a bad thing.

    The process was brought in for three reason

    • To improve thw quality of what is being submitted for recycling, most people do not ensure bottles and cans are in the correct condition when they throw them in their recycle bin.
    • To reduce little, if you look in most ditches around the country you'll see coutnless bottles and cans. This will massively reduce overnight because bottles and cans are now worth money. You might dispute this but this is exactly what has happened in other company's such as Germany.
    • It's an easy fix, the process has been rolled out in other countrys and it works. All Ireland had to do is copy it. We didn't need to reinvent the wheel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭SVI40


    I'm not disagreeing with the system. It's a good idea. I only mentioned one of the reasons it was introduced. Clean water bottles going into the recycling bin were being contaminated by the other dirty containers being put it to the bin too.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    You call it a tax, but its a deposit scheme.

    These existed before in Ireland in the past, they worked but were scrapped purely as a cost saving excercise for the companys. o previously consumer got money back and didn't have to have the expense of disposing of the items. Then when the deposit schemes were scrapped people had to dispose of them so the cost was pushed onto consumers.

    If you continue to call it a tax that would be weird, unless you normally get a full refund of your taxes?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    To be fair those 2 litre bottles are at least not as bad as those slabs of .33 bottles people buy for the 'convenience'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    What hope do we have when the moderator is this arrogant



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    That uisce company sell 25 bottles for a 5er that's criminal 😀



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not a moderator in this forum so please feel free to report my posts but also remember to add that I asked you a question and you chose to provide a flippant yet positive reply to my question! Are we not to trust what you write in your posts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭reubenreuben




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,409 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    When did deposit schemes exist before in Ireland? The 1970s/80s? For glass bottles?

    The big difference and it seems people have to keep repeating this is that there were no bottle banks then or recycling bin collections.

    The local authorities and government developed a recycling system using bins a decade and more ago. Most people pay for this service and use it.

    The current RVM scheme is fine by itself, what is a scandal is that no effort has been made to integrate this new scheme with the existing that many people were quite happy to use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Thanks for your response. Ever think of getting into writing short stories?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Genghis


    Spot on @Furze99 . I also note that many advocates for re-turns introduction will point to problems with mixed recycling, and how this was needed because of those problems.

    They never go on to say that these problems will still be there for everything left in the green bin. That this scheme works for only 2 types of waste (PET bottles and aluminium cans). That nothing else, from dairy to paper, cardboard to film plastic, other metals to food waste is anything to be worried about.

    Eventually we need a better way to recycle everything (as well as reducing and re-using). As someone who recycles everything for, I personally would have liked something that builds on where we had got to and addresses the wider solution than something completely new and only for a couple of items.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,409 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I agree, that would have been progress.

    It's as if a committee made up of green evangelists combined with manufacturers and big retail designed how this scheme would be implemented. And feck the public, the people to whom it would be applied. Hopefully they'll get their comeuppance.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    There was no need to have bottle banks because companys did a take back scheme, then companys stopped and pushed everything back onto consumers so that they (companys) could save money and it was only years later where glass bottle banks were introduced. For a decade+ people disposed of the glass in their bins and there was no recycling.

    You say most people use recycle bins but the hard reality is using a recycle bin goes beyond just throwing something in the bin. It has to be in the correct condition. The reality is most of what people throw into recycle bins is contaminated because people can't follow basic instructions.

    You say people are happy to use existing recycle bins, but you also forget that people bitched and moaned about the very idea of a second and third bin being introduced in the first place. Now they people have the bins they are mostly not capable of using them correctly.

    Applying a value to the waste itself by using a deposit scheme ensures far higher compliance as people need to ensure the bottles/cans are in the right condition to get that deposit back. You say this should have been intergrated into existing reycle bins, frankly I find that suggestion hilarous as there would be no way to ensure correct compliance or even know what people were disposing of or where.

    We know deposit schemes work, they worked in Ireland before with glass and they work in other countrys with bottles and cans.

    Reading people moaning about the scheme is no different to all the people that bitched and moaned about the plastic bag charge, the smoking ban, recycle bins being introduced etc etc. In short, some people really hate change and get easily upset and it makes them sound like old cranks.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    Recycling compliance can be improved over time, the deposit scheme is part of this.

    But sure, lets entertain your suggestion and not do the deposit scheme and instead Ireland copied Germany which operate upto 20 recycle bins to ensure waste is properly seperated out.

    You think people will be fine with that and won't complain and compliance will be perfect?

    I can tell you that people will bitch and moan like crazy and compliance will be awful.

    Why? Because before Ireland can do that there needs to be a complete mindset change. The deposit scheme is part of that longer term mindset change.

    Right now people can't even correctly use 3 bins for gods sake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,409 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I don't buy that explanation one minute. As stated I think RVMs make possible sense as an anti litter measure. But it's inexcusable that the existing recycling system is not running in parallel with this for the domestic disposal of these containers. If there was an issue, the state should be leaning on the bin collections companies and those recycling the contents to improve and accurately report their figures of these containers. The public have a strong suspicion that it suits some of these to simply divert the recyclables to incineration. But that is not the publics fault, you will have heard of the chap who put gps trackers in his scrupulously clean recyclables and tracked them to Ringsend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    the problem with the system is buying bottles in a shop when out, or getting a bottle in a food place.

    I now have to bring the bottle home with me. its a bit daft.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭SteM


    Someone in one of the recycle threads posted they thought that used nappies should go in the compost bin.

    The week after my next door neighbour moved in beside us she put a load of half empty nail polish bottles in our green bin because her service hadn't been set up. A lot of people don't have a clue tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    no matter what you do there are people who dont care, its not that they don't have a clue

    bins should be checked, if someone is taking the piss fine them, stop collecting etc



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    a recyling one

    which is where they will still be going



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    It works as a anti-litter messure, infact its extremely affective as one. I've seen this in practice in Germany myself, people either bring stuff home, pop into a shop to get the money back or if they do leave it somewhere other people pick it up to get the money back.


    It's people taking responsibility for their waste, this is the only way people are going to change buying habits and reduce waste.

    if its that much hardship for you then don't bring it home and miss out on the deposit, thats your choice to make.

    The fact you are commenting shows the scheme is working, its getting people to think about the waste they create.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    it does not, i have no problem with it at home, when out, it makes little sense.

    in fact if I have to pay for the privilege sure I might as well dump it on the street, sure someone will pick it up

    the real problem with recycling is its a one time thing. Very few avenues of recycling, save some metals are actually recycled.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If you look at the bins in the likes of Liffey Valley* they have slots for regular waste and for recyclables. Next time you're there look at the crap in the recycle hole - too many people don't give a toss where they stick their crap! I'd guess that most of these bins are deemed unfit for recycling due to contamination.


    * I haven't been in LV (or any of the big shopping centres) in ages so it is possible that they got rid of these bins!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    and you think these people will even use a bin now that they are being charged to bring the bottles home?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    OP

    They did a test on people who complained about water taste and drank bottled water. They simply refilled the water bottles and put them in the fridge. They then did a taste test between the regular bottled water. The people couldn't tell the difference. The conclusion was it was either the temperature of the water or they got used to the taste of water from plastic bottles. That is why jug filters work for people.

    They test tap water more than they test bottle water for quality

    The RVMs will be more reliable in the future when IT services get them sorted and staff understand how to empty and replace receipts on them. The next phase will be electronic payment



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    When they want their deposit money back then yes it is more likely that they'll do the right thing.

    Plus, they're not being charged to bring anything home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭JVince


    That is correct.


    and back then the thoughts of buying water in bottles was laughable. On the Late late show new enterprise night the audience (and gaybo) laughed with Ballygowan was introduced.

    current 1.8b plastic bottles are produced here.

    600 million go to landfill



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,217 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    In addition to reducing litter and cross contamination of recyling bins

    Its not all about recycling what is collected, this scheme will achieve two things, reduce the amount of material going to landfill

    the second one harder to measure is reduce the amount of plastic burned in open fireplaces and stoves

    in addition, once the deposits go up to something meaningful, it will drive consumer behaviour in reducing the volume of stuff purchased in plastic

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



Advertisement