R624 - Cobh/Fota road dualling [early planning]

hans aus dtschl · 20-02-2019 9:40am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Very badly needed. In addition, the 60kph limit between the N25 and Belvelly is beyond a joke.

I presume nothing can really be done between Belvelly and Cobh?

They'll surely make Ballard Hill or some new offline-build dual carriageway equivalent the main road to Cobh, and use the Tay Road as a kind of distributor ring road for the town. Donegal Hill and Belvelly could have a link to the new road then. That would free up the old waterside road for local traffic and greenway-style use.

On that note, the 60k limit on Foaty Island itself is presumably because of the cyclists and pedestrians: there's no alternate route for them, and it's part of the round-the-harbour route. I've seen few enough pedestrians on it but a lot of cyclists. I don't understand why the council never used the extra available width to put in segregated footpaths and/or a cycleway. It's slightly too narrow for dualling but there's definitely room for those.

Chris_5339762 · 20-02-2019 9:44pm

Its badly needed but the only real problem is the junction on the Great Island side of Belvelly bridge. That is a bit of an annoying T-junction.

Belvelly bridge needs to have an alternate bridge built as its the only access but it is built like a brick shi... well you know what kind of house I mean. It never sinks, never gets bumpy and only ever gets pot holes in the modern tar. Slatty Bridge, between the Fota Hotel and the Carrigtohill interchange is constantly sinking and falling apart. Thats the one to worry about.

Realistically the Fota Road does need dualling, it would be desirable. Its only if you get stuck behind a tractor or a cyclist (who has absolutely no other route off the island apart from the ferry) that is slows down. Otherwise it works surprisingly well.

Ballard Hill is way underpar to be the main route to Cobh as its so steep. You'll notice splats of concrete half way up it, caused by cement mixers dribbling their load (mind out of the gutter) as they go up the hill. Something better would have to be done, and the Tay Road is poor enough. The Tay Road Crossroads are absolutely bloody lethal though.

hans aus dtschl · 21-02-2019 10:13am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Ballard Hill is way underpar to be the main route to Cobh as its so steep. You'll notice splats of concrete half way up it, caused by cement mixers dribbling their load (mind out of the gutter) as they go up the hill. Something better would have to be done, and the Tay Road is poor enough. The Tay Road Crossroads are absolutely bloody lethal though.

I agree, all of these could do with major improvements. All are currently too narrow too.

marno21 · 24-10-2019 2:52pm

€100m price tag on this

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cobh-Road-upgrade-could-cost-100m-fa044ced-fc50-40d9-949d-b1a0014f3082-ds

Given that funding won't be allocated to a regional road, the Council are seeking to have it redesignated as a national road. There are similar size towns with similar national road access.

BelfastVanMan · 24-10-2019 4:08pm

marno21 wrote: »

€100m price tag on this

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cobh-Road-upgrade-could-cost-100m-fa044ced-fc50-40d9-949d-b1a0014f3082-ds

Given that funding won't be allocated to a regional road, the Council are seeking to have it redesignated as a national road. There are similar size towns with similar national road access.

Anyone any new suggestions for the possible new name?

N35 seems fairly logical, if it's a primary, N79 (old name for N30) if it's Secondary...?

AugustusMinimus · 24-10-2019 4:59pm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Anyone any new suggestions for the possible new name?

N35 seems fairly logical, if it's a primary, N79 (old name for N30) if it's Secondary...?

Is there much value in this scheme given it’s only as far as Belvelly? €100m would nearly get you a bridge across to Passage West.

hans aus dtschl · 25-10-2019 9:40am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Is there much value in this scheme given it’s only as far as Belvelly? €100m would nearly get you a bridge across to Passage West.

Did I misread?
I read it as three schemes:
Cobh Cross to Belvelly (Bramley lodge to Belvelly),
Belvelly to Cobh, and
New Belvelly bridge
With a combined cost of €100m.
It doesn't seem unreasonable?

I'd love to see some space being made on the old alignment for walkers and cyclists. There's heavy enough traffic on the road. Foaty island is a really sketchy stretch to walk or cycle and it forms part of a potential round-the-harbour route. I know people who tried to walk a loop of the harbour and there and Dunkettle were the big problem spots.
There's space for that infrastructure at low cost even now, but no movement on it at all. Or funding.

marno21 · 14-12-2020 11:21pm

R624 to remain a regional road as per Eamon Ryan

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2020-12-10a.561

rebs23 · 15-12-2020 10:10am

marno21 wrote: »

R624 to remain a regional road as per Eamon Ryan

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2020-12-10a.561

That's a real slap in the face to the Council! So much for sustainable development and moving all those Seveso sites from the City Docklands. Really puts at question the development of Marino Point, etc. Real short sighted decision.

hans aus dtschl · 15-12-2020 11:59am

Yeah bit of a disaster because the Council will struggle to fund the type of upgrade that they've originally proposed.
I'm not sure there's a cheaper alternative either.

If they were talking about ploughing more money into sustainable infra on Cobh and Fota it'd be logical, but at the moment there's kind of no plan at all.

KrisW1001 · 15-12-2020 4:32pm

R624 is in no way a national route. This was Cork County Council trying to pull a fast one and get the Department of Transport to pay for its local commuter traffic.

Am I right that every single dual-carriageway road around Cork city has green or blue signs on it (and is thus nationally funded)? I'm trying to think of any dual-carriageway R-roads around here, but I can't.

Pete_Cavan · 15-12-2020 6:51pm

Yeah I struggle to see how a relatively short road to an island with a small enough population could be considered of national importance. It is literally a road to a single town and nowhere else, it is even pushing the definition of regional truth be told.

KrisW1001 · 15-12-2020 9:01pm

Great Island has a population of about 10-15,000 people, and R624 is the only road route on or off it. It absolutely deserves upgrading, but I always felt it was a bit rich for Cork Co Co to try get that upgrade funded by the budget for national roads.

marno21 · 15-12-2020 9:09pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Yeah I struggle to see how a relatively short road to an island with a small enough population could be considered of national importance. It is literally a road to a single town and nowhere else, it is even pushing the definition of regional truth be told.

Cobh has a population of 12,800, bigger than Ballina and Westport which have national primary routes feeding them, and bigger than the towns served by most national routes.

The regional road comment is even more bizarre given that many places with less than 1,000 people are served by regional routes.

Regardless, there is a €69m project on regional roads progressing in Clare. Limerick Council are progressing a route with a price tag of €140m. It's very doable if the agencies involved push it hard enough.

Cookiemunster · 15-12-2020 9:16pm

What €140m regional road are Limerick Council progressing?

Pete_Cavan · 15-12-2020 10:56pm

marno21 wrote: »

Cobh has a population of 12,800, bigger than Ballina and Westport which have national primary routes feeding them, and bigger than the towns served by most national routes.

The regional road comment is even more bizarre given that many places with less than 1,000 people are served by regional routes.

The N26 serves more than just the town of Ballina, it serves numerous towns and villages in north west Mayo and west Sligo and it provides a link between a National Primary and a National Secondary road. There is a case for it to be a National Secondary but it is certainly used for more than just journeys from one end of it to the other. The designation of a road has little to do with the population of any one town on it, it is based on the wider importance of the road and the places it directly and indirectly serves.

The R264 serves one big town but very little else. Once you cross the bridge you are extremely limited in where you can go. You don't get traffic using that road on the way to somewhere else so the road really is regional at best. Okay the Passage West Ferry opens journeys out to the wider region which justifies that designation but I dont think it is a route that can honestly be claimed to be of national importance.

KrisW1001 · 16-12-2020 12:38am

R264 absolutely meets the requirements for Regional route status. This shouldn't even be an argument. There are shorter R-routes that connect fewer people to the national route network. There's also enough transport demand from Cobh to Cork to support a railway link.

I've been stuck on this road enough times to wish it was improved, although if it were my project I'd change the routing to make it a loop: cross the bridge, turn left, go as far as the "top of the hill" in Cobh, swing West, down to Rushbrooke and Belvelly and back over the bridge.

So yes, I think it needs doing. I just would like Cork to start investing in these road improvements out of its own money rather than trying to piggyback on the National Primary Route budget. Another example that needs investment and bypasses is the R586 that runs from Bandon to Bantry and forms the spine of West Cork.

rebs23 · 16-12-2020 1:57pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What €140m regional road are Limerick Council progressing?

Coonagh to Knockalisheen?

https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/roads-and-travel/road-improvements-major-schemes/coonagh-knockalisheen
It says here the main contract is estimated at €35 Million on the Limerick Council site but DPER documents show it is in the range of €50-100 Million.
https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/12/04/greens-allowing-grass-to-grow-on-northside-plans/
Also https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/roads/killaloe-bypass-shannon-bridge-crossing
Killaloe - Ballina Bridge crossing

It will be really interesting to see if Eamon Ryan signs off on these roads. The Killaloe-Ballina one has been in the mix for decades and is badly needed but it does provide for another route into Clare off the M7.
The Coonagh - Knockalisheen road is a 2.2km dual carriageway into Moyross. It's hard to justify that price tag of upwards of €100 Million for a regional road which will have very limited use as an access point to Moyross? I don't know if there are other reasons for it's construction such as stage 1 of the Limerick Northern Ring Road?

rebs23 · 16-12-2020 2:04pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The R264 serves one big town but very little else. Once you cross the bridge you are extremely limited in where you can go. You don't get traffic using that road on the way to somewhere else so the road really is regional at best. Okay the Passage West Ferry opens journeys out to the wider region which justifies that designation but I dont think it is a route that can honestly be claimed to be of national importance.

The R264 is about allowing the Seveso sites in the City Centre relocate to Marino Point where there is relatively deep water to allow for expansion of Port activities here. The jetty's and Quays are already in place, it is an ideal location to develop a new Port facility. It facilitates a significant sustainable development initiative underway in the Cork area. It's not just about access to Cobh. It's national importance is about increasing Port capacity and routes in the context of Brexit and the change currently underway in how we export and import products. It's nationally important in the context of supporting sustainable development initiatives, the NPF, 50% Brownfield development targets, etc.

Cookiemunster · 16-12-2020 2:34pm

rebs23 wrote: »

Coonagh to Knockalisheen?

https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/roads-and-travel/road-improvements-major-schemes/coonagh-knockalisheen
It says here the main contract is estimated at €35 Million on the Limerick Council site but DPER documents show it is in the range of €50-100 Million.
https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/12/04/greens-allowing-grass-to-grow-on-northside-plans/
Also https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/roads/killaloe-bypass-shannon-bridge-crossing
Killaloe - Ballina Bridge crossing

It will be really interesting to see if Eamon Ryan signs off on these roads. The Killaloe-Ballina one has been in the mix for decades and is badly needed but it does provide for another route into Clare off the M7.
The Coonagh - Knockalisheen road is a 2.2km dual carriageway into Moyross. It's hard to justify that price tag of upwards of €100 Million for a regional road which will have very limited use as an access point to Moyross? I don't know if there are other reasons for it's construction such as stage 1 of the Limerick Northern Ring Road?

The Coonagh to Knockalisheen scheme will cost nowhere near €100m. Full funding was already allocated a few years back and €17m has already been spent. Phase 1 of raising the ground level to take the road and building the first 300m was finished around two years ago.

The tender for Phase 2 (costing €32m)to finish the road was put out in February and is ready to be awarded, but LCCC can't award it until Ryan signs off. He though wants to 'walk the land' in January before signing off.

It's purpose, as part of Limerick Regeneration, is to open up the Moyross area and it predates any Northern Ring Road plan.

rebs23 · 16-12-2020 2:56pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Coonagh to Knockalisheen scheme will cost nowhere near €100m. Full funding was already allocated a few years back and €17m has already been spent. Phase 1 of raising the ground level to take the road and building the first 300m was finished around two years ago.

The tender for Phase 2 (costing €32m)to finish the road was put out in February and is ready to be awarded, but LCCC can't award it until Ryan signs off. He though wants to 'walk the land' in January before signing off.

It's purpose, as part of Limerick Regeneration, is to open up the Moyross area and it predates any Northern Ring Road plan.

I didn't realise €17 million has already been spent with another expected €32 million. It's total cost is listed at €50-100 Million in DPER document Ireland's Pipeline of Major Infrastructural Projects (sorry no link). Anyway back on topic..

Leonard Hofstadter · 17-12-2020 6:13pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Coonagh to Knockalisheen scheme will cost nowhere near €100m. Full funding was already allocated a few years back and €17m has already been spent. Phase 1 of raising the ground level to take the road and building the first 300m was finished around two years ago.

The tender for Phase 2 (costing €32m)to finish the road was put out in February and is ready to be awarded, but LCCC can't award it until Ryan signs off. He though wants to 'walk the land' in January before signing off.

It's purpose, as part of Limerick Regeneration, is to open up the Moyross area and it predates any Northern Ring Road plan.

It's in the PfG that roads have to be built, it states that they are important in terms of inter connectivity around the country (or words to that effect). Besides, roads are Hildegarde Naughton's responsibility, she's the roads Minister in the Government, not Ryan.

marno21 · 17-12-2020 6:15pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What €140m regional road are Limerick Council progressing?

https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/roads-and-travel/road-improvements-major-schemes/limerick-northern-distributor

Knocklisheen-Annacotty.

Of course, I forgot to mention that this project is also under the purview of Clare County Council

marno21 · 23-03-2021 1:14am

Tender for route selection & design to come out for this shortly. Effectively a rehash of Post 1 in this thread. This will take 2 years

Bridge section prioritised in conjunction with Marino Point upgrade.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40248605.html

Chris_5339762 · 23-03-2021 9:52pm

marno21 wrote: »

10 years later...

Cork County Council made this one of their many priorities when looking for funding as part of the 2016-2022 Capital Plan Review.

In light of the fact that €4.5bn has been allocated for RLR projects, based on appraisal and subsequent prioritisation, I would expect to finally see movement on this scheme in the next few years.

Just like my original post was waaaaay off the mark so was yours

I still have that old booklet somewhere, it'll be very interesting to see in a few years if things are the same. I suspect they will be.

The difficulty this scheme will face will be quite high. Unfortunately the only solution is a dual carriageway through an old forest and a bridge directly across a nature reserve.

Unless they took my idea, which would be an extremely expensive new junction on the N25 at Harpers Island and have the road follow the railway line onto Cobh where it turns inland and heads to the town.

No nature reserve problems, almost no houses, and no problems with water flow changes as the railway line has already done that and nothing would change.

But yeah, this scheme is badly needed and unfortunately its going to cost a huge amount of money... there is no other sane solution for the Cobh problem. Not to mention that you can't currently walk or cycle the Fota road AT ALL and there is absolutely no solution for that possible within the current confines of the road.

Mushy · 03-04-2021 7:45am

Anyone know why the resurfacing outside Fota just suddenly stopped?

Chris_5339762 · 02-10-2021 12:02pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40711139.html

They seem to be taking this more seriously. Although the article is about the M20, the R624 is mentioned and is also mentioned as being extremely complicated. For obvious reasons. Lashing a bridge and a DC through a nature reserve will not be easy.

My solution is still to follow the railway line somehow.

pintail · 05-12-2023 12:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116672073#Comment_116672073

Harper's Island is a nature reserve: Harper's Island Wetlands

spacetweek · 05-12-2023 3:57pm

That was some thread bump!

marno21 · 05-02-2024 2:20am

In this regard, Cork County Council submitted an initial project appraisal to the Department in 2019 regarding the upgrade of the R624 Cobh Road. The project, as submitted, includes upgrading the existing N25-R624 interchange, the provision of a dual carriageway from the interchange to Marino Point, widening of Slatty Bridge, the provision of a new bridge crossing to Great Island at Belvelly and upgrading the existing R624 from Marino Point to Cobh.

The estimated cost of this scheme was more than €100 million, with possible staged implementation.

In line with Government requirements Cork County Council also produced a Strategic Assessment Report (SAR) for the Great Island Connectivity Scheme and a draft was forwarded to the Department in November 2022.

Since then, both the Public Spending Code and the Department’s Transport Appraisal Framework (TAF) guidance have been updated - the Department continues to liaise with the Council regarding new requirements under the new infrastructure Guidelines and the TAF including the preparation of a Project Outline Document (POD) and business case incorporating the work already undertaken at the SAR stage.

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R624 - Cobh/Fota road dualling [early planning]

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