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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I think Mr Martin needs to have a word with Mr McGrath if he wants to the magic in the article to work




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Its not like we are the only nation struggling to recruit at the moment though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah but senior generals past and present in the UK are pushing the conscription conversation.

    Needs must.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Yes, and they have been told “F Off” by even the looney tunes of the Tories, which is saying something. The U.K. isn’t bringing in Conscription and neither are we.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    IMHO cynical political play there from MM, making it someone else’s problem for the inevitable inability to recruit in sufficient numbers …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Ya, whatever about the UK which last had national service 60 years ago and no chance for it to restart there even with a military tradition, here there would be blue murder if suggested



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Everything is impossible, until somebody does it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Can anyone summarise the IT article, it's behind a paywall for me and can't seem to find the same story reported elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    And tonight a Supermodel is going to rock up to my door...

    Its not happening, there is no political will, no public support, no infrastructure to accept or sustain such numbers, no equipment for them...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Martin has been briefed that the numbers expected to be recruited will be below the needed/planned amounts at only 540, and has ordered a new plan drawn up to increase the numbers, but nobody is quite sure how that is going to be achieved given the economy and current efforts. BTW there are ways around paywalls.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭mupper2


    Time to start renovating the housing in the Curragh and biting the bullet with building DF housing/apartment complexes....


    Yes I know it won't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Look at you coming up with suggestions as to how we could make the DF more attractive... The department will have none of that. I could just imagine their response to some of the housing other nations have for their personnel (though granted there are some that are as bad as us).



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,196 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    If Ryanair can do it...

    Here's an idea, make the DF a finacially less disastrous career choice and it'd help a lot with the recruitment and retention problem...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Ryanair cares more about their employees than the DOD does about the DF (and isn’t that saying something…), the DOD has been trying to run down any legacy housing stock for years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Some contributors may have seen this already, but it does give an indication of the level of planned investment into defence facilities around the country, including into accommodation. To be fair a lot of the budget spend is a function of the fact these are in effect heritage sites and the scale of neglect and underinvestment, perhaps since Independence. Haulbowline for instance is in fact largely an ex heavy industrial site with all the contaminants and clean up issues that go with that …

    www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/241588/289b9655-309f-4f5d-bc1b-28810649d398.pdf#page=null



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    That's an impressive list, with a considerable sum involved. It's a shame that doesn't make the headlines.

    The new Gym location in Haulbowline for example is on a building (Building 11)that was destroyed, presumably by fire, in the 1920s. Underneath it used to be 4 oil storage tanks. Before that it was a Rainwater tank, that did, as the name suggests, collect rainwater for use by the island, before it had any other form of water supply, for use in the dockyard. Above the (underground) tanks was a Coopers workshop, pharmacy and accommodation for officers.

    It was built in 1816.

    As for the Ispat site remediation, The complexity here is it is where the old factory sat, and footprints of the steel mill is littered with the remains of steel foundation embedded in the ground since 1976 and earlier, and deep pools which once had an industrial function, but now only contain various levels of Toxic matter. It's not Chernobyl, but you would have a high risk of cellulitis, should you happen to catch a scratch after a simple slip, trip or fall. My prediction is the site will be infilled completely as was the east tip, and used as a hard stand only.

    Post edited by Dohvolle on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Considering the Cost with Conservation works and even eological costs that have to be applied when doing these construction works in protected structures maybe its time for the state to walk away and build purpose built modern bases on green field sites



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Not practical when the other properties are already in DoD ownership, and a wide range of development has already been done in recent years.

    You'll get those costs no matter where you go. There is no such thing as a "green field" site when it comes to state development. It either becomes an archaeological dig site because bronze age settlements are discovered during excavation, or it becomes the subject of NIMBYs protesting at the blatant militarism on display and won't someone think of the children.

    If we own the property already, we can just make better use of it. Haulbowline Island for example has a total area of 87 Acres, including the old east tip (20 Acres), which is not DoD owned. The old ISPAT site, whic is mostly cleared former industrial ground, is another 20 acres. It would be a waste to evacuate this secure location for some unknown greenfield site requiring deepwater access. USE IT!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It's a bit of dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. Reusing or refitting listed facilities brings its own headaches as much as building new, and sure as hell eats into money fairly easily for what get.

    In other news, something from Martin in the Sunday Times today, though perhaps someone should point out to the Minister of Defence that if we are in a "Crisis phase of war" and that "the Ukraine and Middle East conflicts have the potential to broaden" then maybe the Government might be a little bit more eager to address the shortcomings of our situation?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/006f8213-7442-4517-851e-9598374220b4?shareToken=229f7225448ef7fc17e73b7489d595ef



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭mupper2


    It's been noticeable for the last 18+ months the World is becoming unstable...You have a group of emboldened powerful autocracies who see the chance to alter the World to how they want it, a stumbling unsure fractured former hegemon, half of Europe arming up, another half hoping it all just goes away...all a perfect storm coming.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Add in the US having an utter mental breakdown and things aren’t looking good are they… And we seem to have decided that our 1939 head in sand position was and is effective and repeatable….



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    I think those in government have suddenly noticed that the main way conflict Will (not could) affect Ireland is an influx of refugees. It has also become clear to government that the land of welcomes has a pretty low tolerance for those escaping conflict. Yeah sure we'll take them when the bombs are landing on their heads, but after that, they are not wanted, because it'll be tourist season soon, and we want the hotels back.

    And that's not even the Far Right. That's the FF voters.

    There has been a realisation that neutrality will mean SFA to asymmetric warfare.

    Even if we manage to remain outside the conflict (which is becoming unlikely, as we see the far left jumping up ad down in the Dail urging Ireland to involve itself in a conflict between Israel and Hamas), the instability it causes may give us more cause to protect what we have from those keen to destabilise our government, be they foreign or local.

    That may be why we saw last week Government commit to €300m on a Naval Vessel designed with joint operations in mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Some one must not have heard of McKee.( i suppose Horses dont count as operations!) Where would the site in Tallaght be?




  • Registered Users Posts: 34,196 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    In what universe is Rathmines close to the M50 in either distance or time?? never mind just some really bad writing

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    DF members, other than the Wing, may now grow facial hair, once kempt.

    Even the wimmins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    There was always a difficult moment explaining the facial hair regulation to male recruits, while remarkably fuzzy female recruits stood alongside.

    This solves that issue, thankfully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Great! I can keep me dreadlocks then...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Dreadlocks were already permited. Navy have had a Rastafari for a number of years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Looking at the Clonshagh site the DOD looked at for the new Cathal Buragh site if it happened. Did they consider that Helicopter operations could be very limited considering the flightpaths?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    They probably assume Dublin ATC would shut down all operations to allow DF aircraft to come and go as they please...



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