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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Out roll the excuses.

    I don’t have time for 100 posts, the nonsense you post on every topic nobody has. Going around and around in circles. So it has to be point out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Basically your debating tactic if the government is criticised or if you are asked to provide back up is to switch to something else.

    Not a very credible way to debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    “Debate”? Posting nonsense hour on end is not debating.

    Anything posted about Sinn Fein is responded with “but but ‘insert party’”

    it’s nonsense. You just don’t like it pointed out and would prefer everyone to sit online going in circle. Sorry have a job, family, etc so no time for it.

    Sinn Feina re incompetent, your response is “but but” and nothing to say they are not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have asked you to post back up for the claim 'SF will turn their backs on FDI'

    So far we have got nothing from the poster who made the claim and from you we have got something about Apple,

    SF raising taxes,

    SF failing at housing in DCC, a county council.

    Now it is you who is avoiding and posting nonsense because you simply won't admit the claim made cannot be backed up.

    *All political party's are incompetent at times. Those who have been in power do the most damage via their incompetence. I know it feels edgy to keep shouting this as if it is an exclusive SF trait but the facts show it simply isn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭pureza


    Oh for heavens sake,the assertion above that Sinn Féin would turn their back on FDI is based on the stuff posters have already said equates to that (taxing high earners needed more,making doing business more expensive via higher employers prsi etc)

    Asking for a specific statement from Sinn Féin to that affect is silly,morass and frankly a disingenuous request

    It's a strawman

    But then again debate isn't prime in this thread

    Party political broadcasting is,it seems



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Surely the strawman is that raising personal taxes is turning your back on FDI.

    I listed some countries who have done that and are still seeking and getting FDI. As I said, I can find no evidence of either corporate flight or personnel flight from those countries. The things that we are told will happen here if SF raise taxes.

    If I am wrong, it's very simple. Show me how I am.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,571 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The irony about high earners being over taxed... yeah sure no change from fg then...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭pureza


    I don't think you want be shown what jumps out as stated in my last post to be honest,well actually I do think you know what's wrong and what jumps out,but just want to ignore pesky stuff like that again and again in favour of your straw man



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The poster seems to want to have 100s of post on every topic/subject, waffle around for hours on end getting explained everything in detail. The majority of people, me included, have a life and better thing to do than explain every single word in a post to the minute degree.

    Thanks for explaining but Im 100% sure the poster knew what you clarified but they just wanted to go back and forth for another 30 posts on it. Like they did responding again to you again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Where has corporate flight and personnel flight happened because taxes were raised?

    Where have countries who have raised income tax rates stopped looking for FDI or stopped getting it

    It has either happened before or it is sensationalising and scaremongering.

    Judging from the countries listed they have found a balance between what is required in tax income and maintaining FDI investment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I had posted before about Sinn Fein failure to build houses during their run in DCC. Of course the excuses flowed, the usual one was DCC had no money to build.

    Turns out DCC had been given money, to the tune of 292m, yet no houses. Plus they managed to build up over 40m in rent arrears while only removing one tenant

    Not sure how anyone could think this party has any idea how to resolve any crisis, let alone the housing one




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What is the claim here? That the Shinners caused the housing crisis?

    The facts are that government policy led to a decline in social housing provision across every council and municipal district in the country and it was happening long before SF in DCC as the graph below shows.



    housing.JPG


    Figure 1 illustrates the decline in the construction of social housing directly by the government. In 1975 local authorities built 8,794 social housing units, which accounted for one-third of the total new housing provision that year. This building trend was reduced to 5,559 in 2005, which equalled just 6% of the housing provided, and in 2015 the state built just 75 units (Byrne and Norris 2017), a shockingly low number considering that the number of people living in homelessness increased by 30% compared to October 2016 (DHPLGH 2017).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,944 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are absolutely correct.

    You believe that it was incompetence on the part of Sinn Fein to fail in Dublin City Council. I accept that there was a degree of incompetence, but it was also accompanied by a lot of malevolence. They wanted housing policy to fail so that their online trolls on twitter and elsewhere could blame the government and claim that DCC couldn't do anything because of the government and that a county council could do nothing. The much better record of Fingal County Council during that time, when Sinn Fein and the lefties didn't get control shows that Sinn Fein argument to be nothing more than another lie. They were simply willing to sacrifice the interests of the people of Dublin City for their party political goals.

    But you don't have to look just at DCC for evidence of Sinn Fein's incompetence and malevolence. Stormont in the North is full of examples. What I would say to posters is that if a political party displays incompetence and malevolence towards the ordinary people while running a county council or a devolved government, how can you expect them to step up and do any better in government?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They wanted housing policy to fail so that their online trolls on twitter and elsewhere could blame the government

    So a countrywide problem developing before and after SF's tenure in Dublin is down to SF wanting housing to fail?

    How did they recruit all the other areas to fail?

    Are the posters to take cognisance of the failures of any other party's who 'controlled' councils?

    Did someone mention 'excuses'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We were told breathlessly that:

    Problem is, after the meetings,business people don't believe them and the advice being given right left and centre in the busiiness world is to protect yourself against a Sinn Féin government now while you still can

    Business people are Savvy like that

    Yet with the distinct possibility SF will be a part of government this happens:


    'Savvy' stuff alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    That's just proving what a good job the current government is doing at attracting FDI



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It also shows there is little fear of the future because ‘savvy’ people right left and centre don’t take risks etc etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    On the original question, they can't form a government.

    The immigration issue is pulling SF voters away to other parties and independents. Their vote is been split, I expect them to do far worse in the next GE.

    Less votes for SF leave the coalition the only viable government in place. FF and FG are hitched for life now, too strong together for any other government.

    The other question is would FF or FG do business with SF if it comes to it? FF I could see, no chance FG.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    No it doesn't. The current government is in place and for all the companies can see it can continue.

    Trying to claim this as a sign that FDI is not concerned about Sinn Fein is hilarious. But honeslty not unexpected with the amount of nonsense posted on here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Nobody knows till next election. At an educated guess I have said FF won't. This is because the grassroots won't allow FF plus a number of TD's who would walk if FF went to SF.

    In terms of the FF & FG, no idea if they will or won't but declaring they are "hitched for life" seems a big call to make.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,175 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...oh im not so sure about that, i think when it comes to it on the day, people will run from ffg, with votes ending up moving towards sf from direct and indirect(transfers etc)......

    tis well in the post now, ffg have managed to p1ss a hell of a lot of people off....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It has been claimed:

    There will be corporate flight and personnel flight if SF raise taxes yet no evidence of this happening elsewhere has been presented.

    Then we were told that savvy business people right left and centre are responding to the prospect of SF being in government yet they are continuing to invest in the future here.

    As I said, as scaremongering goes this is not very competent stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We were told before the previous poll that immigration would cause a fall in SF popularity yet they gained in the polls.

    IMO I think immigration will present problems for them all but wow what an issue it is looking to cause for FF and FG with outright revolt in Mayo against government policy fronted by...wait for it...councilors from FG and FF.

    I agree that FF and FG are hitched for life and we may very well see FF fall down into single figures in the medium term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Are Sinn Fein in government? no

    No need for another 100 posts on the topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Sf in power will be centrist with a slight lean to the left. There last alternative budget was as conservative as the current government. If they have any hope of longevity in power that is the path they will go, this isn't a left or right country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    This is my point if voters are switching over immigration, it hurts everyone. If votes are leaving SF and going to the more extreme parties it hurts SF more. SF are competing with 2 parties, FF and FG are competing with SF. The Greens are finished for the forseeable, I expect SD to rise. There is an awful lot the government can do and have the money for between now and the next GE to solidify their core.

    While it wasn't a surprise I think people forget how pivotal the coalition between FF and FG was and is for Irish politics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    What will be interesting though is what effect will a FFFG coalition do to their voter base. Their is a core of FG that hate FF and vice versa , will a vote for one party just be enabling the other party to go back into power.

    Like I possibly would vote FF but if it means Varadkar is another revolving taoiseach, no thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Both like power more than they hate one another.

    IMO knowing many FF grassroots people there will be ructions if the vote ends up similar to last time and FF HQ refuses to look at a deal with SF. Grassroots know that the game is up as a distinct party if they stay on the road they are on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Exactly they are governing parties, FG spent along time in opposition waiting for the chance and they are not going back there.



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