Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I have wondered this also.

There still sems to be a lot of AirBnB in Dublin, so I assume the regs are not being controlled, but I dont know that for sure.

That said, AirBnB does have a place in tourist markets, especially when hotels are being taken out of commission to accomodate IPAs or homeless families.

There is a balance, but its a tough one to strike.

Intentionally provocative/extreme but a good article (and to be fair written by an older gentleman) highlighting some of the age related inequality we seem unwilling to face up to.

“Unable to afford their own homes or save for a pension, they’ll have to carry the burden of paying for the pensions of the home-owning generation. More must be asked of older people”

Just such a shame the young people of Ireland are on average so uneducated economically that they are voting for a party that wants to perpetuate this by

• reducing the pension age

• eliminating the only (token) wealth tax we have (property tax)

• increase income taxes (their only hope of ever accumulating some wealth of their own)

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/01/05/gerard-howlin-the-young-are-caught-in-a-grotesquely-unfair-trap/

(no paywall)

https://archive.ph/AKiOB

Raising the pension age only works for some white collar workers in non-physical jobs. How well do you think a 67 year old carpenter, or bin man, after 50 years on the job, will be able to do his job? People like that will just end up going on the dole in their early 60s either way (as currently happens in large numbers already - its why the DSP have a policy not to require anyone aged 62 or over to engage in job activation processes, theres no point in even trying to get people that age to work physical jobs) at a cost broadly similar to the state.

The honest answer that all of our political parties are shying away from mentioning is PRSI rates are going to have to increase substantially as our population ages, almost every year in perpetuity going forward unless our demographics change massively.

Which is absolutely going to screw young people the most, delaying/preventing them from buying a home even further, meaning for large numbers of them when they reach retirement age and don't own their own home they'll have to be housed by the state, meaning PRSI will have to increase even more to accomodate that...etc.

The property tax should absolutely be retained (and increased massively), but income taxes are going to have to go up too either way. Housing two thirds of pensioners in social housing in a few decades time won't be cheap.

I can see this coming back to kick the government in the rear end.

I started working and paying prsi at 15 at a time when half a 150 pound salary would be gone in state deductions.

Are they going to give a higher pension to people who start work at 22/24 who do a few extra years after 66 compared to those that worked from 15 to 66.

Legally challenged I suspect

Fair points, but if the hotels essentially dont exist anymore, as they are taken up by IPAs, who will accomodate the tourists, if not AirBnB?

Ghost estates are an interesting point, but unless they are owned by the state, they can't have capped rent.

And if they are owned by the state, they will be used to accomodate lots of folks, not just those employed in tourism and including those not employed at all.

Hotels aren't allowed to be hotels anymore.

That is a problem for those small towns and will result in further decay to the town's social fabric and economic prospects.

However much we may choose to ignore it.

Didn't they ban them in certain areas a few years ago. Or has this been implemented at all?

Why demolish state of the art assets, with foreign capital baring the risk of a downturn.

Drive up and down our city centres, full of solicitors, accountants, dentists, doctors, estate agents, financial advisors, banks etc

All could be moved to an office block and property freed up for residential conversion

Thats also an interesting one yeah. Plenty of middle class people only start working full time in Ireland after doing an undergrad + masters + traveling, so at 24/25 (or later). Versus lots of working class people who start at 17/18 when leaving school. Its not remotely fair to have the same retirement age for both given the almost decade difference. It should really be based on total number of years you've worked/paid contributions for, not an arbitrary calendar age.

Theres also the male/female lifespan issue - at our retirement age of 66 as it is currently a 66 year old woman can expect to live about 3 years longer than a 66 year old man. Thats a significant different in pension costs to the state. In a fair world that would also be addressed, and is also presumably open to a legal challenge.

All the evidence is our current government plans to ignore the issues (and just raise PRSI), and SF will be the same, though. They'll desperately avoid any difficult/unpopular political decisions. Which will most negatively effect young people trying to save to buy property, as they'll be hit by the extra taxes while already struggling hugely to save.

Air B&B is good example of "Just because it makes money doesn't mean it should be done". A lot of the ills of the modern West have their roots in the ideology of the "bottom line". It it makes money, it creates growth, and if it adds to GDP, then it's good.

Plumbing just for one means you need to dig up floors which would be more complex by working around a shell (which in a lot of cases wouldn’t meet building standards for residential property. Then the shell wouldn’t have sufficient ventilation for apartments so would need to be altered. Much quicker and cheaper to demolish and build new.

A rated office blocks are in demand and more so in the future due to environment policies….just look at London and what is happening there. The vacant offices are old office blocks that don’t have green credentials….

we are not talking about some house in the a town that was being used by a solicitor/estate agent. We are talking about office blocks/industrial units being converted to residential housing

Did I say anywhere I am against the proposal? Just saying it’s cheaper to build new than convert to residential.

You talk about Limerick and unless I’m mistaken a lot of the properties/offices on o’connel’s Street used to be residential 100 years ago so could easily be converted as I said previously I’m not talking about converted houses…..I’m talking about purpose built office blocks and industrial sites.

As for Green credentials companies don’t want an old office because it will impact their goal of net zero policies. This is why A rated office space is heavily in demand and attracts a 30% premium over older offices that would cost a fortune to retrofit and make green. I’m not talking about some sole trader operating out of a some converted house…These are public listed companies that publish an environmental data along with their financials. For a listed company this can be as important as their profit because unless they meet these standards pension funds/investors won’t hold their shares.