Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570509#Comment_121570509

I thought that was traced back to one, or a very limited number of black makers.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570407#Comment_121570407

But not even from an investment perspective but from a living perspective. They've all got major issues either built in the 70s and not a lick of work done or flooding / delirious materials issues. There's no one to do this work and it's not worth sitting in a cold, uncomfortable house for a decade to sort it out. From that perspective it isn't a good investment for me, there's no magical technology coming down the pipeline that will replace any of these deficits.

And from my perspective it's not the houses I'm second guessing investing in, it's Ireland itself. I don't think I'm alone in thinking this and given my carer and income it isn't really an issue for me or my colleagues in fact several have already moved and now I see why.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570722#Comment_121570722

I know very little about Donegal, but surely with a budget of I’m assuming 500k or more (100k+ wage*4 + sizeable deposit) you can afford 90%+ of all the properties in Donegal as a single income household.

So it’s not really a price issue you have, it’s a supply issue? You just don’t think any of the houses in Donegal are up to the standard you want?

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570722#Comment_121570722

Another problem is the number of s**ty celtic tiger builds that are all over the country. From apartment blocks full of issues to cardboard houses, I really wonder how these houses will age given that many of them already look to be in poor nick. There's a block of apartments in the town I live in that look very rough, and they're only 20 years old. One would hope that new builds are of a higher quality.

I agree on your second paragraph. I'm 37, so I'm a bit old to be emigrating, but I do sometimes think that I should have jumped ship. I'm actually eligible for Italian citizenship, and I speak the language quite well. Winters in Wexford do sometimes make me wonder if an apartment in Lucca would not be a better option for a single man...

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570371#Comment_121570371

im still not sure what the issue is, do you not want to spend more than 400k and are frustrated with whats on offer, or you do and there just isnt supply of what you are after?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570846#Comment_121570846

I’m really surprised that €500k can’t buy a house in the cheapest part of the country for property prices.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570827#Comment_121570827

Initially I had a 90% LTV but on renewing this was changed to 70% which is a bit of an issue. Thats the chief limiting factor limiting me to about 300-400k which here is either rural bungalows or semi ds in the bad side of town. Aditionally building isn't possible given restrictions around self building in the county alongside restrictions in builders.

However the biggest limiting factor is that of all houses the majority won't do block tests and sit on the market for months. It is fairly ironic that it would be easier for me to move to Kildare despite the price increase compared to the Donegal market. My partner and I were down there recently and really enjoyed being there for a few days so that may be the direction we take. However some of my colleagues (about 7) were recently poached and moved to Canada. After looking at the contract its a substantial increase in pay and fewer hours.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570708#Comment_121570708

Limited number of suppliers who were supplying millions of blocks a month at peak.

Much of Donegal affected - as a result there are not many unaffected properties available at any price. The supply simply doesn't exist, as nobody who holds a non-defective home is willing to move (and there isn't supply of new builds either for them to move into).

It's an example of a market totally stuck by lack of supply. The game of musical chairs is broken there.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570708#Comment_121570708

They were one of the cheapest providers at the time not just in the county but for several counties around. As estates were built in stages it's not even entire estates affected but some partial estates or even individual houses if the builders were short blocks and used them as a last minute replacement.

That alongside the number of people who won't even test for it has crippled the market in the area.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570925#Comment_121570925

sounds like you don’t know what you want, house in Kildare Donegal or move to Canada might you would do better posting in the personals section in boards

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572264#Comment_121572264

Thanks for that, considering I've been trying to buy in Donegal the last 2 years and no movement on it I think I've a reasonable idea of what I want but it isn't available so time to look somewhere else. Perhaps if you perused (meaning to carefully and methodically read) my comments instead of skimming you would have seen that.

You shouldn't worry but thank you for your concern. Keep it to yourself next time however.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570925#Comment_121570925

Yes can imagine Donegal market is fairly dysfunctional at the minute. Rising at the fastest pace in the country too and hard to see it going any other way with Mica demand.

Canada certainly has its pluses. A number of my friends live there. Two biggest drawbacks though

• Winters are brutal in Toronto. Golf courses closed due to Ice from November through to almost late April. As a friend said, if you don’t love skiing you’re basically stuck inside for 6 months a year. Vancouver is warmer but rains like you wouldn’t believe. Summers are much better than here.

• More relevant to this thread: if you think the Irish property market is expensive…I know some fairly successful people out in both cities and don’t know anybody who’s managed to buy anything but a tiny 1 or 2 bed apartment. Nobody I know sees it as feasible to raise a family, all just making some cash and coming back to Ireland for some cheaper housing.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572338#Comment_121572338

The contracts I read for the people going to Canada were 3 times the Irish wage converted. It was actual madness to read given the demand in the sector at the moment.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572371#Comment_121572371

That’ll work alright!

Do it for a few years - then you can buy the entire county of Donegal when you get back.

Avon8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569270#Comment_121569270

As someone with experience of the Donegal market, if you had access to €350k of cheap credit plus deposit in 2017/18 you could've bought basically whatever you wanted. Plenty here not adding up

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573401#Comment_121573401

I work in the medical field and we do rotational training. I've tried to time it as best as possible but it never worked like it did for my colleagues and in the 17-19 period I got a training job offer that I took in another county were I couldn't get a mortgage because I didn't live in Donegal and the schemes won't give documents promising you will be somewhere in the future that the bank want. Since then I've been caught in the current mica and restriction property issues.

Looking at it with hindsight it may be better though as there would be a higher chance of buying something with mica.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573615#Comment_121573615

Reading through the lines, I assume you’re a doctor working through a surgical training scheme?

This means you’ll be earning €200k+ basic salary for 35 hour week plus any private work you choose to do when a consultant in your mid 30s. You’re also from and happy to live in Donegal?

I really wouldn’t worry about the cost of housing. You’ll be able to live in any house you want, looking out over the sea and the mortgage will be relatively insignificant to you.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573842#Comment_121573842

Doctor yes surgeon no, don't have the interest for that stress in my life.

I'm not worried about getting a house it's just not ideal that it may be more practical for me to buy in cash rather than get a mortgage and it also knocks the tail end of capital appreciation.

Worse yet is if this is the difficulty I am having I can only imagine the harm it's doing to others earning less. I can only imagine the moral injury they're suffering on a daily basis listening to people saying we're doing all we can while nothing really changes.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572338#Comment_121572338

vancouver at least is like ireland in 2005, my brother is there and he is getting on well, they have a nice family house but also held on to the small 2 bed condo they lived in originally, he is mortgaged up to his eyeballs, recent interest rate increases meant he had to find an extra 3k canadian per month!

he seems happy enough though!

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574372#Comment_121574372

Fair play to them! My family/friends out there are more conservative and self imposing 4x LTIs (not sure actual lending rules) and $1m gets you very little.

I know two native Canadians and they have a very 2005 Ireland attitude to property alright. Both have bought apartments which are under construction, no intention of ever using them but just assume they’ll flip for a $500k+ profit as it appreciates while under construction.

When I mentioned to them that I heard prices were starting fall with higher mortgage rates all I got was death stares…

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574291#Comment_121574291

The council will just ignore any objections. Planning permission for these habitation blocks is just window dressing.

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574291#Comment_121574291

There's a significant rump of the older generation who couldnt give a sh*te about younger people and families who are trying to start a life for themsleves. Really grinds my gears.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574760#Comment_121574760

They're also the same people complain about there being not enough staff in hospitals to treat them, no home help or social services and not seeing the irony.

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574792#Comment_121574792

Dont forget understaffed pubs, bars and reasturants.

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574815#Comment_121574815

My sister was complaining recently that she now knows no one on her street anymore. She doesn't realise half them are for rent and there's at least 4 or 5 up on Airbnb, a complete 180 in the last 5 years.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574760#Comment_121574760

Especially given that the decisions that brought us here were largely due to their voting habits. The boomer meme, whilst overly simplified, exists for a reason.

paulieeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570925#Comment_121570925

"However the biggest limiting factor is that of all houses the majority won't do block tests and sit on the market for months. "

Thats mad, so even given the high possibility of defective blocks they expect people to purchase without a test??

fartooreasonable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575221#Comment_121575221

In the area we're looking over half would be like this and they just sit there being renewed in limbo. It's actually the first question my partner asks before anything else and the default is generally "no it isn't done but they're willing to consider it". Or worse "the other houses in the estate sold with negative tests" where we had been sale agreed whilst the test was pending and it turned out to be riddled and was the first in that estate. What's worse is they'll use the phrase passed mica procedures but is riddled with other substances like the new one pyrrhotite.

ATU have a series of lectures on the topic on YouTube and honestly I sat there watching it fascinated in the lectures on human and social costs so far.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575221#Comment_121575221

There's a whole host of checks that vendors expect people to forego. Just another sign of the state of the market.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575421#Comment_121575421

It would appear low hanging fruit for any incoming government to sort this out once and for all.