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EV Depreciation

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭vicM


    Cupra are misers with Spec though..can you even get matrix on them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    James Barry Motors have a red one advertised on Carzone at that money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭John arse


    My carzone seems fooked up- anyone else seeing this?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Like the colour. Great price

    Think they'd put at least some detail in the ad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,611 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Eh...no. Born standard spec is noticeably better than the ID3.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,611 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Not saying they're dodgy or anything, but I rang them re a couple of ads when I was buying a Born for my wife mid 2023, and what was actually available didn't seem to tally with what was advertised - plus, because they're pre reg (AKA officially second hand) they were only offered at a high finance rate meaning it was considerably cheaper per month to buy a 'more expensive' brand new Born elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭sk8board


    “Huge spec” - but we’re not going to tell you any of it 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭Buck Melanoma




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 Cormacca87


    Finding this thread very interesting. I've been thinking about going the EV route for some time and to my mind, a Cupra Born makes sense. I'm in a 2017 Mazda 3 petrol at the moment and apart from occasional trips to Dublin/Galway, my driving is mainly around the city (Limerick).


    Looks like now is becoming a good time to make the change, financially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 382 ✭✭Ev fan


    For what it's worth I bought an ID3 in 2021(original car was an egolf) after 2 years I was looking to see was there anything nicer/more plush than the ID3. For me the ID3 is a very good car with plain looks and with a Lidl interior- jarring when it comes with a premium price. I didn"t want anything bigger so I had a look at the Born which is made on the same production line in VW Zuickau. IMO the Born is significantly better looking (striking with the high cheekbones/angles etc.) Inside it looks a lot better furnished and finished, Bigger more colourful infotainment screen with controls a little easier to use- sports seats/nicer steering wheel and probably marginally better handling. Functionally battery/drive train/ the same and has the same robust build quality and parts. I think Neil Briscoe (ITimes) called it an optimised ID3. I got mine in February 2023 and haven't looked back since. Don't be fooled it's not a sports car and the other thing to be careful on may be not to get the largest wheels if you want to optimise comfort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭Casati


    What’s the rear room like for feet in the Born? I have found the ID3 uncomfortable in the back as feet are swashed under the front seats - so can’t stretch legs out - might be different if you have petit feet and wear pumps but alas I don’t’



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,626 ✭✭✭✭unkel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭Casati


    Same platform but different packaging, quite a bit more than different badging



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Rear leg room should be the same. That’s unkels point I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Not a good time now

    Especially for used stuff, a lot of them will be reaching the 100k km warranty ending threshold soon and they will be treated like nuclear waste by the general public, nobody is gonna want out of warranty EV's, will be some bargains then.

    You could do a poll here and 99%+ will have an EV that's still under warranty and you can bet any money that they will be getting a new EV before that warranty is up. They will be the same posters that will tell you EV's are more reliable than the sun rising every morning but they won't risk it themselves.

    Look at these poor sods, rolled over some debris on the road and both facing 60k new battery bill for damage.


    Or this with guy his Nissan EnV200, battery just failed and is out of warranty

    The industry for fixing EV's cheaply just isn't there and depreciation will be brutal because of this


    A lot of price drops to come for new stuff too.

    We haven't see any real desperation yet from auto giants, give it a year or 2 when they start lobbying the EU for more incentive money and beg EU to increase fossil fuel cost to make EV's more attractive.

    A



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,626 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Start your poll then maybe?


    I have 3 EVs, none of them under general warranty. The Tesla has a bit over a year of battery warranty left, but I will keep the car after that expires.


    You seem to have joined boards a few weeks ago, just to spread some EV FUD?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,143 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I have 3 EVs, two of them are under warranty and one isnt. However the tales of battery mass failure are not happening and I am not concerned. Indeed, I'd be more concerned owning an out of warranty 2016-2020 diesel than a 2016-2020 EV



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    I will

    They are under battery and drivetrain warranty then? What are they?

    What am I saying that's FUD? Ev's are depreciating by a lot, this is the EV depreciation thread and they lack specialists to repair them cheaply which contributes to depreciation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Yourself and Unkel are not general publics, ye are geeks, enthusiasts.

    Are you not concerned because its a cheap old Leaf or something? What is the one out of warranty

    I'm pretty sure its not a 30k Tesla or VW

    I'm guessing a 3k Leaf or something worth nothing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,143 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yeah it's an old leaf. But the current Tesla replaced an out of warranty Tesla, that I wasnt concerned about either. It's simply not the issue you are making it out to be. If it were, older EVs would be worthless. Even out of warranty Teslas are still holding value at or above 20k even though they are now 10 years old. What 520d or e class are worth 20k at 10 years old?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,157 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I think you are missing the point, as someone who owns and has driven older EVs it's not you that needs convincing - it's people who have yet to buy one.

    The following need to happen I think for there to be enough confidence to blow the scare stories away.

    Used EVs should have a standard method for determining their deterioration and their health. This should be available in report format and be easily accessible through the infotainment system.

    Battery warranty or insurance needs to be a product that anyone can buy and renew. I want to sell my old EV? "I have 9 months battery insurance and an NCT too" is the kind of thing I'd like to start seeing in ads.

    Lastly, the cost of battery replacement and repair work needs to be more affordable. The modularisation of batteries has helped but not fixed it.

    I've a feeling that the car industry is looking at the mobile phone one and will try to emulate it: That the expectation is that all car owners hold a new car for a few years before replacing with new again and there is no secondary market to speak of. Cars will get cheaper but harder to repair with the emergence of mega and giga casting, leading to a more throw away culture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭handpref


    If you asked Ian Sampson featured above would he buy another env200 he probably would, he has two, and a Zoe, and we all know the limitations of the early 24kwh leaf battery.

    Ian is an original early adopter with his rural leaf, so the “guy” featured above is one of biggest ev supporters around, the small sound bite provided has not been given any context, just a shock headline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Exactly what I was thinking an old Leaf or something

    Model S is more like a 740d or S Class?

    Wouldn't compare one too a 2.0l diesel, but they are worthless, if the battery or drivetrain goes it wouldn't be economical to fix it.

    An 85kWh Tesla battery costs over €15,000, plus shipping, labour etc, it's over 20k alone and its not even new and can die anytime and don't be giving me this ohh, you can just replace a single module, that's only €1,000. Nobody does those jobs cheaply in Ireland

    If the battery or high performance electric motor dies, that car is going for scrap and yes you will get a good amount if you take it apart.

    Most of those cars have 15-20 modules that are worth about €500 each and the motors in them worth another few k, but most people wont break down the car bit by bit

    I could get a €500 Yaris and €4000 off it, if I broke the whole car up and shipped parts to Saudi



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,626 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @gammon199 - "Model S is more like a 740d or S Class?"

    It is in size, comfort, style and luxury. In total cost of ownership, it's more like a 520d 😂

    Show me where you can buy a Tesla battery module for €500, I might buy a few...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,143 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Model S is not a 7 series or S class. Not at all. Have you sat in a 7er or an S? It's a Sonderklasse for a reason. The Tesla is not a premium executive car. It's a 5 series segment, not a 7. Full size sedan yes but executive/premium, no!

    Have you seen used S prices. There's a reason they never go below 15-20k. Even crashed ones. The battery in them has such value that you can buy a crashed car for 15k, sell the battery, and make your money back, then part out the rest for profit.

    If only the motor goes (and bear in mind the first cars had 8 years and unlimited mile warranty) then it's not expensive to fix, a couple of k probably. It's certainly not scrap. If the battery goes, that would likely scrap the car. However. Batteries never go on these cars thanks to the BMS. What does happen is one module goes and as you rightly mentioned that's only a few hundred quid per module. There's already companies in the UK and US doing module replacements so its only a matter of time before they come here.

    I'd prefer a 20k out of warranty tesla to a 20k out of warranty bimmer/mercedes/audi etc, be that a 5 or 7 series.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,184 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    530d is holding value and it was a good bit cheaper than a Model S new. You'd need to work out the fuel savings between the two but there might not be a lot in it. Diesel could have been the better long term choice.

    I've a phev and starting to get cold feet as with my milage I'm about 12mts away from using up my warranty. Friends in the trade are telling me some garages refusing to take an EV trade in, I think my phev will be fine but I'd rather change now than before it hits 100k.

    Really hard to know what to change to, if it was a full EV again, new model 3 is probably the only one I'd consider after seeing how well some of my friends got on with them and big milage.

    It's definitely a confusing landscape for anyone thinking of changing right now. I'd feel safer going something rare in a petrol or diesel. Bik is playing into it as well though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,143 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    That f10 is a lot more expensive than the 520d which I mentioned.

    Tesla is a good way to go but not if you're planning on changing quickly - the prices are very unstable. If there were no Teslas I'd probably go something German and premium. If there had been no Tesla there probably would be no EV options so I'd probably import an f10 M550d.



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