EV Depreciation

Buddy Bubs

As per title, just interested now that a lot of 2020 and 2021 EVs are at or nearing end of PCPs or owners just fancy a change....what level of depreciation have you suffered?

My own experience is that my cupra born at 42k wasn't even wanted by a Kia dealer against a new ev6 so we offloaded a 171 530e bought in 2020 with very small depreciation. But other owners of a 2022 born have been offered 23.5k which is the best part of a 20k loss in 2 years so I guess I have too, I'd put my figure at 18k in 2 years of I was to change now. My car has taken a price cut though making depreciation figure high but cost to change like for like would be less at about 12/13k now.

Keeping it in the family, my father's 2022 Etron at 85k could easily be picked up for 50k now so I can't see a dealer offering more than 45 so he has had 40k of a loss in 2 years, it's discontinued now in favour of q8 Etron if that is seen as a completely new model.

What are other people's experiences?

kippy

18k loss in two years........

Christ ive never spent close to 18 K on any car, that's an eye watering amount of money.

Edit, just see a 40k loss in two years. That's astounding. I don't earn 40k net in the year. To write off my annual salary in a paper loss would be very very difficult to fathom.

Is this rate normal with new cars or just this model?

Is it because tech is improving so fast in newer cars or some other reason?

helimachoptor

This is what my wife got for the ID3, a couple of days ago, moving to an Id4. We didn’t put any upfront payment on the Id3 when we bought it.

IMG_8535.jpeg

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505145#Comment_121505145

Yeah the most I ever spent before that was 22k on the A6 which I kept for 4 years and sold for 17.5k in 2022 so only about a thousand a year but that was in the mad days the used market went nuts.

The 18k on the born is a huge drop for me but not selling it now because of that.

The 40k on the Etron is definitely only a paper loss too my father bought it for his retirement after years of driving vans and work vehicles he bought something nice with the pension lump sum, he will never sell that. No way he would crystallise that loss.

But there's loads of PCP will have to make a decision

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505145#Comment_121505145

Normal for any high end car in my opinion.

50% after 3 years should be about normal. Omitting special stuff of course.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505224#Comment_121505224

That rule of thumb is pretty good alright.

Padre_Pio

People bought for crazy prices over the past few years and now we're back to reality

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

I'd agree with him on depreciation, the rest of EV ownership has been great for me. The article is behind paywall I only could read the start

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505173#Comment_121505173

Used prices have been crazy for a number of years. We've an old second car and it's lost very little in 6 yrs. That's Brexit and Lockdown. That is not normal.

High price of EVs is not normal either. What ever issues already existed in the market. Tesla have depressed the EV market it into a price war trying to maintain market share against the Chinese companies.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/18/23919336/tesla-q3-2023-earnings-revenue-profit-margin

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

Didn't read it cause of the paywall but

1. It is completely normal for a new car to lose 25% of its value in the first year and it always has been regardless of the 'engine' type

2. Cars break down. Especially new models in their first few years. This is what warranties are for. As models and technologies mature, they get more reliable but almost every model has at least some recalls against their name, at least BEV updates can often be done OTA without inconvenient trips to the main dealer.

3. The public charging infrastructure is still very poor, Ennis Co. Clare, for example, is the largest town in Munster and has a single public fast charger.

The government definitely have dropped the ball on this, For most people who charge at home most of the time this doesn't matter too much, but people want to be able to use their cars for social not just commuting purposes.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

He tends to be anti EV in general and pretty dramatic based on what I’ve read.

Depreciation affects ICE too. I’m waiting for one of the RS6’s to drop on DoneDeal. They are currently €207k.

They will be €100k cars in 2 years max.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505349#Comment_121505349

3. The public charging infrastructure is still very poor, Enniskillen so, for example, is the largest town in Munster and has a single public fast charger

I'm a bit lost as to what you mean here. Enniskillen is in Fermanagh, which is in Ulster. Perhaps you meant Ennis, Co Clare though, but it's far from being the largest town in Munster.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505366#Comment_121505366

Oops, stupid Autocorrect went mad there. I meant Ennis in Clare which claims to be the biggest town in Munster

https://www.ennischamber.ie/ennis-retains-its-place-as-largest-town-in-munster/

Flinty997

People have short memories. I think people are forgetting the problems we had with the shift to diesel with dpf, EGR valves, clutches, turbos, flywheels. That's before you get into the degradation of air quality in cities. I'm sure some will say they've done 500k and not changed a light bulb but that's not the case for a lot of people. Lots of poorly reliability in modern ICE cars.

Also VW has had all sorts of problems with it's ID range. Lots of questionable decisions from them. Perhaps too many changes all at once. That said there's more right than wrong with ID range.

That said diesel isn't right for everyone. Same with EV.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505371#Comment_121505371

Genuine question, I don’t really do depreciation as i dabble in buying and selling but what’s a comparable car, a Golf?

A 2021 Golf 2.0 TDi is €21k in a dealers now. How much was that new?

How much was an ID3 new?

How much is a 2021 ID3 now?

I would tend to think they are following the normal depreciation curve 🤷

He’s dramatic. He bought an ID3 in 2023. Now he’s crying because of the value he’s lost. Every new car suffers this loss in the first year, add to that the recent cost reductions by VW has hit his perceived value significantly unfortunately.

Akrasia

There is a lot of disingenuous argument from the anti EV crowd

First it was 'nobody will buy BEVs because they're too overpriced'

When the prices fall it suddenly becomes' You shouldn't buy a BEV because they depreciate too fast'

Very few of the people saying new BEVs were overpriced are now advocating buying a used BEV now that they're come down so much. It's almost like they had some other kind of agenda

Gumbo

heres a whirlwind of adventure 😁

I bought this car in July 2021 for €48k. I sold a MS to buy this (making a healthy profit).

I then traded the car into Tesla who gave me €57,609. That was March 2022. Now it’s up for €30k in Tipp.

They’ve removed the 21” wheels for some reason. This car was used as a ranger car after I traded it in!

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/35869048

🔥 2016 Tesla Model S P90D 🔥

Some car though. Ludicrous mode with launch control for this car to 60 in 2.6 seconds!

Unfortunately it will have had its free supercharging for life and free connectives removed 🥲

Andrew76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505450#Comment_121505450

The car doesn’t look near as nice now compared to your pic. Did yours have some sort of black pack on it? Rear badge, door handles, trim around the windows all changed from black to chrome and the tiny wheels as you mention.

liamog

The rule of thumb I always followed for new cars was to expect 40-60% of the original price after 3 years. We've had a bit of a honeymoon period where due to market shortages used EVs were maintaining very high values, at the time there were many articles decrying the lack of affordable used EVs on the market and it was a sign that the move to electrification was just for rich people. New prices crept up as manufacturers wanted to capture some of the value.

When you add the Tesla price drop to the current economic conditions, we've seen the prices of new models drop. The ID.3 from the article is getting a facelift and has dropped in the price, the facelift 58kWh is €37,112. This time last year I seem to remember they were around 42k. Facelifts always cause a bit of extra depreciation in the older models.

Putting that all together it's not surprising that some people are going to get stung. We're a long way past the days where I bought an Ioniq for 26k used it for 5 years and it was traded in for 18k (30% depreciation)

TheGreatUnkown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505316#Comment_121505316

What sort of battery range was he getting from the ID.3?

A friend of mine has one as a company car and has had lots of issues with it in relation to charging. Sometimes it will and sometimes it won't. He also mentioned the range in cold weather was very poor. I asked him if he'd buy one with his own money and he said not a chance.

I think in relation to the depreciation part, this technology is evolving rapidly, so heavy depreciation will be a consequence of this.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505483#Comment_121505483

Yes. I dechromed it. But Tesla removed it when they took it 🥲

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505577#Comment_121505577

That was always on the cards, I always advised people to buy on a pcp or something that leaves the residual value risk with the OEM

McGrath5

Interesting times, keeping an eye on ID 3 prices and there is a noticeable drop lately. Tempting to make the move to an EV in 2024 from a ICE.

_ptashek_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505145#Comment_121505145

My own experience would suggest that an 8% to 15% average annual deprecation rate is to be expected with new ICE cars, and depends on many factors like make / model popularity, reliability and market opinion. Wouldn't expect much of a difference with EVs.

maddness

The car market has been massively over inflated the past few years mostly due to Covid and Brexit. That’s changing and values of all cars are coming down and EV’s are no different. However, EV values have tanked in the UK and what happens there tends to follow here to some extent even if it is not on the same scale. Values are dropping here and will continue to do so but but that’s a much to do with Tesla price cuts and the likes of BYD coming in with very desirable offerings too. The whole car market is in a funny place and pricing any car is difficult now. There are a lot of people with massively overpriced petrol and diesel cars advertised and not selling too.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507448#Comment_121507448

Yeah, I would say a lot of EV early adopters are going to be massively out of pocket considering the price cuts brought in by manufacturers over the past year.

That said, I'm sure most have done their sums and are saving compared to running an ICE, but still it may be a bitter pill when it comes to trade in values.

zg3409

Even those on PCP with guaranteed prices on trade in say 3 years later are complaining the next PCP deal will cost them more what with interest rates, some price rises, higher baked in depreciation etc.

Mostly it's supply and demand and supply has improved and filled the demand with oversupply on the used market for some models. If buying used make sure you haggle a good deal or walk away. That protects you from future depreciation. Anyone thinking buying a new Tesla even for 40k is a bargain and not going to depreciate is going to learn the hard way.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507433#Comment_121507433

Did you even watch the video. Seems like the dealership and insurance company wrote off the car without actually checking was the battery damaged, or going back to the head office to negotiate replacement.

The cost to owner was only the loss of insurance no claims and that was because they accepted the dealer and insurance at face value.

That really isn't about EVs but right to repair and supply chains. I remember when it was impossible to get the unusual tyres that the Cinquecento Sporting used. Eventually batteries will be a repairable.

https://youtu.be/T7Q0nNkQTCo?si=sfoldXoiTybUiezr

https://youtu.be/C4nS_tSQiVQ?si=xPTanQUebUy05KaE

One problem for companies doing this is they can't source used batteries for parts. As the failure rate has been much lower than expected.

v10

Adrian Weckler article for anyone that wants to read it

MakersMark

PCPs are just another example of our throwaway society, and goes against environmental friendliness.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507682#Comment_121507682

It's not horror story that was suggested. Though it does have lazy click bait heading.

Not many would choose an EV for driving Dublin to Mayo or cork on any regular basis. In addition a tech writer should be aware of the teething troubles of new tech.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507525#Comment_121507525

You usually can't avoid depreciation. But you can avoid buying where it's worse (new). It usually levels off after a while.

eastie17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507627#Comment_121507627

I dont get why people on PCP would be complaining - they have a guaranteed value on their car, set when prices were higher, and the price of what they'll be getting into if they choose to replace it with another EV will be cheaper than it was due to the recent depreciation

Those who bought and were hoping to flip again in 3 year are in a different situation of course.

kanuseeme

EV's are recommended here the whole time for such trips, 10 minute stops here or there, guess he did not get the memo, I cannot see anything anti EV, his car stopped working on a motorway, range is not what is advertised, not enough chargers, he says he likes the car.

I cannot think of a better title,

Maybe,

My VW lost 15000 euro in a year

or

VW drops the price after I bought my car.

Lots of people in his position.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508138#Comment_121508138

And EV’s are recommended rightly so. There’s nothing wrong with the car. His tech head can’t understand new cars depreciate in the first year. Added to the fact that VW reduced prices. He got a double whammy.

Everything else seems to be a dramatic piece. Brand new car depreciation, he’d have to pay €15k to get a new car. He bought into the age old “VW, the people’s car” advertising etc. Then goes on to rant about Musk V Zuck in a MMA fight.

Weird piece of tech journalism.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507868#Comment_121507868

True, but let's say you buy a model 3 in 2022 and expect 10k depreciation by year 2.

Well Tesla just cut the price of a model 3, by about 5k since 2022, so you're actually hit with 15k depreciation.

(Not sure of the exact price drop, but I'm sure someone here is tracking it)

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508536#Comment_121508536

The worst deprecation is being new. Not sure what you're asking.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508536#Comment_121508536

That’s what VW done. Not Tesla.

The cost to change also drops in line so the cost to change the car should still be static if one desired that.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508536#Comment_121508536

Bottom line for most is the cost of replacement.

so the car depreciatied by 5k because of a price drop. That’s 5k less it’s going to cost to replace

liamog

Journalists who complain about the high price of new EVs now complaining about depreciation due to price drops remind me of this

https://twitter.com/Cavalorn/status/654934442549620736

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508882#Comment_121508882

True, if you want to upgrade to the same car and remember that you're still paying off the loan.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508919#Comment_121508919

Would that no apply to any car purchase?

Anybody tryin for upgrade after one year and thinking they would have a sh1t load of depreciation is delusional as the article suggests.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508948#Comment_121508948

It would, it's not EV specific.

I'm just saying that when a manufacturer drops the price of a particular model, the price negatively impacts anyone who bought the car at a higher price.

Sure they can upgrade to the same car at a cheaper price in the future, but the price drop adds an extra sting to their initial depreciation.

10-10-20

He'd have more to grouse about if he had brought a Funky Cat at the 31,995 EUR being asked for by ORA.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508851#Comment_121508851

How much have Tesla prices dropped over the last two years. VW just did it all at once.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508138#Comment_121508138

There is a bit of a 'charged' (sic) atmosphere around BEVs in the media at the moment, and this is 100% deliberate in certain publications where there is an agenda to promote ICE in favour of BEVs and no opportunity to stick the boot into Electric vehicles is missed, even if they need to 'spin' some of the facts to make them fit the narrative.

My sister in Law broke down on the motorway last week. It was a nearly new Kia sportage diesel

The difference between someone breaking down in a Diesel, and someone breaking down in a BEV, is that when the Diesel car breaks down, it doesn't spark multiple stories in the national and international press and inspire thousands of social media posts from BEV owners saying that Diesels are unreliable and people shouldn't buy them.

The technology in the current generation of BEVs is new, and still not perfect, there are some teething issues, but overall, it is absolutely fantastic and for the vast majority of people, If they have access to private parking and a home charger, a vehicle that can travel 400km on a single charge should be more than enough for 99% of their journeys. The problem then becomes what happens between journeys if they are away from home. And here is the biggest issue. The public charging infrastructure is the major limiting factor.

There are far too few fast chargers around the country, and even where they are available, they are often in use, or out of order.

As a 2nd car in a household, a BEV is absolutely fantastic and for a driver who is prepared to go out of their way to get the car charged when they're away from home, they can serve as the primary/only household car

But the public perception is being skewed by the constant negative coverage in the media.

There are no stories out there about the happy users who charge their cars for half nothing at night, never have to go to the petrol station (saving hours every month, driving to the filling station, queuing up and paying for fuel) But whenever a BEV driver has to wait for 20 minutes for a charger to free up, this becomes a reason to not buy a BEV....

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508996#Comment_121508996

I don’t know exactly. I’m not sure how to track the prices.

I only know the VW as we were buying a taxi. One day the the pro Family was €65k, the next day it was €48k.

Im nearly sure the very first Long Range Model Y’s were €70k. They are now €50k!

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327241/ev-depreciation-2023

Q8 etron is barely a facelift to be fair, definitely not a new model, just a badge alignment on the existing.

still frightening depreciation on them 😮 given the retail on a q8 50 is something like 108k (equivalent to the old 55)

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508536#Comment_121508536

There are lots of people who are prepared to spend crazy amounts of money every 2 years to keep the most current model in their driveway and for those users, it's hard to feel too much sympathy when occasionally the depreciation is higher than they expected. Especially after having to spend the last 3 years listening to them bragging about how they're selling their used car for more money than they paid for it the year before.

That was always an extremely unsustainable situation, and several years of inflated new and used prices were always going to result in a big price correction sooner or later.

ELM327

As someone who bought a new 3 RWD in Sept 2022, I took a 10k haircut when Tesla cut the prices.

Before that I had been doing very well, indeed I made a profit trading my X in for the 3. I got above 60k as a trade in, and that X is now still for sale in a dealer (after not selling in Tesla inventory) for 49k.

RoboRat

Looking online, the depreciation on a 1-year-old 64kw MG4 Excite LR is minimal. With the drop in the EV grant, I could possibly come out level (€32,500) but I would probably be looking at losing €1500 - €2500 if I wanted to move it quickly.

I think if I put it up for €30,000, I would get it as a new LR range costs €33,345, and that's the base price with no colour option, so you would be looking at north of €34k for the grey version I have. 1-year-old standard range versions are being advertised for just under €28k.