Gangland Shootings part 4 - Read OP before posting - updated 30/12/23

I dont see why its the States problem? why should they pay?

Jean Boylan (now deceased) was Christy's first wife - the mother of Daniel and Jnr.

I know compadré

The liberal laws in western democracies are quite bizarre

I remember hearing in the media of a child who had a panic attack on hearing his mother died in a car accident successfully sued the driver of the car that caused the accident, the child was sitting at home playing while the accident happened miles away and was awarded thousands of €

or the tennent who successfully sued her landlord because she tripped and fell in her OWN sitting room

Working from memory and it’s 9+ months since evidence but trial told something like Patsy Hutch had no credit card. Dowdall paid for sundry Hutch expenditure that needed a credit card and was given money back in cash. So in that context as starting point could have stuck to line that he often ran such errands for Hutch and it was none of his business why a hotel room was needed. Did part of evidence not include Dowdall suggesting at some point he thought room was so Patsy could meet a female ‘friend’ ? But likely the recordings en route to North made that claim of ignorance pretty hard to bring home. As to why someone else didn’t book the room the day before they emigrated/ some ‘wino’ one or more of below may arise:-

(a) Stupidity;

(b) A desire to keep a limited number of people known to Hutch OCG involved with a belief that Dowdall could bluff his way out of trouble.

(c) A deliberate tactic to throw Dowdall under bus and/or also link attack to republicans;

Brain tumour

Do people think that he would have died on that same date if the shooting hadn't of happened? It just seems like a huge coincidence that he's shot (in the legs), brought to hospital and then dies one week later of an undiagnosed brain tumour.

What are the chances a hitman would miss (as in only leaves his victim injured not dead) and then gets a call a week later to say hes actually dead from an undiagnosed brain tumour and will be listed as natural causes.

While a month later,another armed hitman shoots a person in a busy restaurant but ends up beaten shot and stabbed himself.

If this was an episode of KIN we would call it far fetched and laughable.

Mad stuff altogether Ted.

In all seriousness I hope it doesnt kickstart another round of killings that leaves a bloodbath in 2024.

The Christmas Eve shooting is reminding me of the tension around the Regency.

I heard similar, travellers stealing a high powered car and parking it in a country village, and use the car to rob houses and then they leave the car behind and get collected

I think it was actually Dowdall told Gardai his dad might have had a bird on the side, or even a fella I recall him wisecracking haha. And that's why he was in the hotel.

Was he daft enough to think that excuse would wash? Maybe if they'd booked a room several times over the months prior (impossible- I doubt the boxing presser was booked that far in advance).

Or CCTV wise they could have backed up his story by hiring a brazzer to be seen on CCTV going to the room and spending the night there. Few of these foreign ones actually live here permanently, she would never be tracked down.

The claim that he spent years booking flights, gig tickets and whatever else for Patsy Hutch also didn't wash with me. It was 2015/16, not 2003 when you would go annoying your only mate who had a credit card.

And why would Patsy use JD for this anyway- even if he isn't allowed cards by the banks because of debts or whatever, he had three kids who were living in Dublin (outside of prison) and a wife- surely any of these are an easier option for an online purchase rather than driving up to Navan Rd to get it done?

IIRC it was belived at the time the operation involved at least 12, 13 people.

Both Dowdalls. The Paymaster.

5 gunmen- Kevin Murray confirmed. Alleged- PH (acquitted on a technicality), NCH, Mago and one other for who several names have been suggested.

Two drivers, convicted- Jason Bonney, Paul Murphy.

Was alleged from memory to be five getaway drivers in total waiting at the GAA grounds, one for each gunman. The late Neddie Hutch alleged to have been one of them. The courts have also accused PH of being involved.

That there is 12 men. Whether either of the Dowdalls, or the Paymaster, was alleged to be a driver as well, I don't know.

Either way it seems the Dowdalls were the only men involved who were never of any prior serious criminal pedigree, which makes them a strange choice to involve given they'd be more afraid of prison than anybody else in the operation.

The one thing I learnt from this is to take a bit more care out there. Normally I guess I would crack a joke with a Timothy. Now I'm going to give lads called things like Crispin, Cecil, Tarquin a bit of a wide berth. What happened to good honest names like Damo and Ando. At least you knew where you were. It;s getting confusing out there.

Price ? R.I.P

Perhaps not about being able to get a credit card ? There is a post on this thread or one of its predecessors from 2020 that wasn’t deleted and it said ‘ Patsy had or has a patch of street benzo sellers’. If someone was involved in selling benzos for cash being able to wash some of that money through a business might be helpful ?

Cheddar Bob

Registered Users

Posts: 44 ✭ 31-12-2023 3:50pm edited 5:35PM

Spencer10112:29 am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552533#Comment_121552533

Working from memory and it’s 9+ months since evidence but trial told something like Patsy Hutch had no credit card. Dowdall paid for sundry Hutch expenditure that needed a credit card and was given money back in cash. So in that context as starting point could have stuck to line that he often ran such errands for Hutch and it was none of his business why a hotel room was needed. Did part of evidence not include Dowdall suggesting at some point he thought room was so Patsy could meet a female ‘friend’ ? But likely the recordings en route to North made that claim of ignorance pretty hard to bring home. As to why someone else didn’t book the room the day before they emigrated/ some ‘wino’ one or more of below may arise:-

(a) Stupidity;

(b) A desire to keep a limited number of people known to Hutch OCG involved with a belief that Dowdall could bluff his way out of trouble.

(c) A deliberate tactic to throw Dowdall under bus and/or also link attack to republicans;

I think it was actually Dowdall told Gardai his dad might have had a bird on the side, or even a fella I recall him wisecracking haha. And that's why he was in the hotel.

Was he daft enough to think that excuse would wash? Maybe if they'd booked a room several times over the months prior (impossible- I doubt the boxing presser was booked that far in advance).

Or CCTV wise they could have backed up his story by hiring a brazzer to be seen on CCTV going to the room and spending the night there. Few of these foreign ones actually live here permanently, she would never be tracked down.

The claim that he spent years booking flights, gig tickets and whatever else for Patsy Hutch also didn't wash with me. It was 2015/16, not 2003 when you would go annoying your only mate who had a credit card.

And why would Patsy use JD for this anyway- even if he isn't allowed cards by the banks because of debts or whatever, he had three kids who were living in Dublin (outside of prison) and a wife- surely any of these are an easier option for an online purchase rather than driving up to Navan Rd to get it done?

IIRC it was belived at the time the operation involved at least 12, 13 people.

Both Dowdalls. The Paymaster.

5 gunmen- Kevin Murray confirmed. Alleged- PH (acquitted on a technicality), NCH, Mago and one other for who several names have been suggested.

Two drivers, convicted- Jason Bonney, Paul Murphy.

Was alleged from memory to be five getaway drivers in total waiting at the GAA grounds, one for each gunman. The late Neddie Hutch alleged to have been one of them. The courts have also accused PH of being involved.

That there is 12 men. Whether either of the Dowdalls, or the Paymaster, was alleged to be a driver as well, I don't know.

Either way it seems the Dowdalls were the only men involved who were never of any prior serious criminal pedigree, which makes them a strange choice to involve given they'd be more afraid of prison than anybody else in the operation.

What's completely mental is that Hutch was extradited from Spain and charged with Murder before dowdall turned. So the only evidence they basically had was a few photos of him in Donegal and the wire tappings that were about 90% illegally obtained.

I just can't for the life of me understand why Sean Gillane (prosecutor) would agree to proceed in a case so full of nonsense. Why he didn't go back and tell the DPP/ Gardai that they are off their rocker to introduce the charge that GH was one of the five gunmen when you have already charged him with murder by having simply organising the plot- a scenario far more believable with the evidence on offer (though in saying that I still don't think there was quite enough to fairly convict on that- no wiretap confession, no witness stating they received direct orders, no electronic paper trail from phones linked to GH, and so forth)

This isn't America, we dont have a permanent DA's, our big name briefs jump between the position of prosecutor and defence brief depending on who needs them next (bar in the rare cases like GH where he was forced to pay out of his own fortune) so it's not like it's his job to do these things regardless. Yes, Gillane gets paid at the end of the day, but he surely knew how flimsy the case was, you would think there would be such a thing as professional pride come into it?

One thing I did always wonder, none of the media passed much comment on the physical reaction of the defence team once Not Guilty was read out. Grehan seems a bit of a character from some of the back and forths he had with Dowdall- when the verdict was read was he all Johnnie Cochoran at the OJ trial with the quiet YES celebration and the back slapping having just secured arguably the most substantial acquittal since Haughey and the Arms trial?

Or was he cool as you like and fully expected it. The evidence might have been nonsense but few men go up against the SCC and emerge a free man either.