Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

Only 2, that's 2 motions, have succeeded in the history of the state Astro.

Don't be lecturing me on stuff when you refuse to take on board all the reasons why these motions are called and pretend that it is always about winning.

We have established that there are no rules abused here, because there are no rules.

Everything else is just your opinion on SF in government or not, which you are entitled to.

You lost me, sorry.

That is an opinion/guess again. I don't know how the next election will shake out but it still remains a fact the 3 governing parties have not grown their support at all.

I have no idea of what the relevance of the second bit is. Nobody has disagreed with you on SF's electoral history.

I never took part in a discussion on the incompetence of SF.

You talk away about that, nothing to do with the points I was making.

I think they have been very effective as an opposition to be honest.

They haven't gone along with the cozy power swap sham fighting and have properly attempted to call the government to account and scrutinize them.

I didn't think FF and FG and their supporters would get so angry about that, but clearly they do not like to be called to account or challenged.

And again, it is a peculiar naivete about politics that doesn't accept that there are things that don't go well for political party's, they make mistakes as well and do things wrong. It's a balance.

We can see that since the state was founded. Your exceptionalism is out on stalks again.

The 300K houses are flying off the shelf in the sales 😂

I will say it again, you have a very peculiar exceptionalism at play here.

You routinely present things SF do or don't do as unique to them. That is where you display a lack of knowledge.

We have seen No Confidence votes used since the birth of the state, we have seen all parties make mistakes, fail to achieve their aims, put the state in extreme peril, etc etc.

As I said you need to balance things.

I laid out what I think of SF, they have been an effective opposition, constantly calling the coalition to account - that is the job of an opposition by the way.

I am sure if FF and FG had grown their support in the polls to the extent SF have, you and others would be claiming they must be doing something right. But no, the consensus seems to be there is something wrong with the electorate, they are being fooled by old men with white beards in the Hills of Antrim etc etc Never gets old tbh.

The arrogance of being in power too long IMO

I think they have been a very effective opposition - holding the government to account. The JOB and duty of an opposition. The vitriol that emanates from FF and FG about this is evidence enough that they are doing their jobs.

I have stated this in 3 posts now but you claim I am deflecting.

This is just more of the arrogance.

A political ideology that cannot abide being called to account.

IMO This is a part of the change that has been brought to Irish politics. Proper accountability.

Anyone with their eyes open, knows that TD's had to be whipped to support the government and that 63 deputies voted against the government. If that's a win for the government, they must be really desperate for one.

The hollow (at this stage) bleating about this just being about SF is tiresome at this stage.

Re: SLAPPS, what i have said is that everyone has a right to defend their name. EVERYONE.

Jesus

Go do some reading on why Confidence votes are called. They are not just about winning.

The Minister is now in last chance territory, a dead minister walking as it is called.

There is also no set amount of them laid down for a reason...this is a democracy.

““They have not gone along with the cosy power swop sham ———-“ ‘. I thought that we had ‘killed’ that SWOP strategy in that it was the voters that desired after every election who gets into power. So, as you pointed out SF/Ml spotted this sham a mile away and would not touch the idea or shall we say that if it did get into power it would hold onto it forever so as to avoid this swapping sham.

and , God forbid, if the voters decided that at some election in the future they wanted a ‘CHANGE’ from a tired old Single party/SF government and put in another government, what would you suggest SF do if it got back in again In order to avoid this SWOP strategy. Looking forward to your reply

I think you may have finally got it.

Will SF coalesce with party's they said they never would, to stay in power?

Will they put somebody in charge of finance they think has the calibre of a sacked and disgraced CEO to stay in power?

If they do, then they deserve to lose power and I'll be the first to remove my vote.

Well, this is a no brainer I would have thought.

For holding the government to account repeatedly.

I fully believe there had to be a debate and vote about the MoJ's competency and that of all the others.

As others have pointed out, you may think it has not worked but for many it has and exposed those who will make career choices when it comes down to it or help to circle the wagons when they were previously critical.

I also think they have done great work in the various Dáil committees questioning and scrutinising government and semi state bodies and the likes of RTE. Other members of the opposition have also excelled in their duty as an opposition too.

The repeated ranting about anyone daring to hold the power swap parties to account is heartening, it is clearly working and politics is changing.

Proper accountability is what we want, whosoever is in power.

What evidence do you want?

Aren't you giving out about them seeking accountability?

Your opinion is they are wrong to take no confidence motions, or to challenge government. My opinion is that it is the duty and job of the opposition to do just that.

I never said they were the 'best' opposition either.

And the fact again is, rather than drive people away they have of the main parties, attracted support since the GE while the government parties haven't.

Tough to accept but there you have it.