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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

17127137157177181522

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't believe Jackman that there are any stipulations on Munster playing both Kleyn and Snyman.

    Absent an injury to Beirne though, I don't see why both would start any game anyway.

    I don't believe there is any restriction on Snyman's gametime with Leinster either.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think this is reason number one why I disagree.

    Why wouldn’t Ed Byrne be on good money? When he signed his deal Leinster needed him and they had Porter entering a central deal. So, Ed Byrne’s agent knows that 1, he’s the number one LHP actually contracted by Leinster other than Healy and 2, Leinster correspondingly have extra money from not paying Porter. He also knows that loosehead is not going to be NIQ at that point. (His next contract probably won’t be as good.,, but do you think Jack Boyle’s deal will be cheap? Very unlikely given his probable role).

    Why in that scenario would he not have a good contract?

    Leinster’s squad are littered with really good irish players who are in similar situations to Ed Byrne. Like, Moloney. I doubt he’s cheap either.

    They have a ton of central contracts, so they have a ton of free money, limited NIQs and players agents know that.

    I feel like Jackman is pretty much right here. The quality of the squad is certainly there to justify his claims and I’d say he’s plugged in enough to know.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If Ruaidhri O'Connor told me it was raining I'd go outside and check



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When did i say he would be commanding multiple offers of 750k?

    You have a weird habit of just straight up lieing when you can’t make a good argument.

    400k+ - 750k is elite lock money. All the figures mentioned are in that range. Seeing as everyone seems ok with the 400k+ figure, i’m confused why any of you argued in the first place.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    What's good money in your scenario?

    He's probably on similar to established non-international players at any of the 4 provinces. He has never been a regular starter for Leinster, has never started in Europe and is a solid but far from spectacular player.

    He's a good player, but it's never been a scenario where he's been an integral player for Leinster in over a decade at the club.

    There is no way he is on comparable money to guys who are in the actual French RWC squad like Dorian Aldegheri or Cyril Baille.

    If anything - there have been repeated stories in the press over the past 5 years or more about how niggardly and difficult the IRFU can be when it comes to contract renewal stage.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭jonok28


    If Leinster are to bring in a prop, who would you choose ( who is out of contract this year)?



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why would he need to be on the same money? Porter is on the same money. Healy would be on very high money. Byrne would just be on more money than they typical prop in his situation because Leinster have several million of ‘free money’ in their player budget.

    The IRFU are a tough bargainer in central contracts but i doubt Leinster had the option in 2022 to be tough with Byrne. They definitely needed him at that point.

    Also, NOW we believe stories in the press. Your typical argument is stories in the press are wrong vis a vis leinster and player contracting.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Yea it appears so. Ireland might need him at lock in a couple of years if Henderson and Beirne start to wane.



  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist




  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    750k is ‘high but possible’ is the same as ‘commanding multiple offers of 750k’?

    Its like you spent time compiling multiple quotes to illustrate that you lied. Thanks.

    I also love that the 400 vs 700 one was a direct response to someone who said 400 was better than 700. A liar and super disingenuous as well. Interesting.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Potentially but I think They feel good about Beirne, James Ryan, McCarthy and they seem to think highly of Edwin Edogbo and Tom Ahearn who look the part this season for Munster.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Byrne would just be on more money than they typical prop in his situation because Leinster have several million of ‘free money’ in their player budget.

    I'm sorry but that is not remotely how contract negotiations are going to work.

    First of all, we really don't know how the economics and finances work re central contracts, and secondly all indications are that players in Ireland are paid at a slight discount (and thirdly if an agent said something like this I suspect they'd be kicked out of the room!).



  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    You've accused me of lying multiple times, but have the temerity to say "When did i say he would be commanding multiple offers of 750k?"

    When I then present you comments you made including:

    Possibly he could accept something like 400k, which is something like a 150k at least discount, with escalators to 800k? Maybe realistically, he would max make the 750k figure

    750 seems high but possible.

    Therefore they will pay full price.

    you double down again, and once again claim I'm the one lying here 🙄



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are a ton of arguments here that seem to be based on irish players just not being willing to negotiate or know how much Leinster have to spend.

    Let’s leave it. I’m pretty satisfied that Jackman is well sourced on this.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Obviously they are willing to negotiate. "I know you have lots of money so pay me" is not a negotiating strategy (or at least it is not a good one).

    I'm pretty satisfied that Jackman knows next to nothing about literally anything but we'll just have to agree to differ on that one.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can you read?

    Even what you just quoted does not come close to saying he had MULTIPLE OFFERS OF 750k. And those are the best snippets you can find from many conversations on his hypothetical contract.

    Quote me where I said he commanded multiple offers of 750k. Otherwise just admit you lied and move on.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    Do you have any concept of nuance?

    Can you conceivably see a link between two comments where you suggest the pay range for him might be up at around €750k and also comments from you like the following:

    Could be linked together to say you were suggesting he had multiple options, and you were suggesting he could command up to €750k?

    Do you want me to get out the sock puppets to explain this to you more clearly?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD: Ok, let's leave the discussion on what and what was not said about Snyman's contract value there please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Disagree here! Jackman is not well sourced in anything. Lol



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I said 750k was high but possible. I still think its high but possible.

    I also don’t see how even if i meant this that ‘he has multiple offers with one reported as 750k’ is the same as ‘commanded multiple offers of 750k’.

    Especially, since i mentioned those other supposed offers in this thread and NONE of them were close to 750k. Stormers and Bath were supposed to be in the 450-550 range.

    This is how i know you are disingenous as ****. You obviously just spent time furiously browsing through quotes for ‘evidence’. So you would have seen that.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ed Byrne knows as well as anyone that he just isn't that good and wouldn't command a big wage elsewhere. I don't think he'd start for any Top14 or Premiership side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    For a 1st contract, what would the salary be? 50k! 60k? There's a glut of players at Leinster on their 1st contracts. Milne, Deeny, Russell, Barron, Osbourne and Turner. I am probably forgetting someone.

    It's when the next contract comes into play, that the wage bill increases. Players moving onto resigning are probably getting a good bump up depending on their role within the squad. Osbourne will command a decent salary when he's due for signing. Deeny won't get a large upgrade. He's not a regular in the squad.

    Cian Healy is probably on decent money. I doubt it's massive at his age. Ngati, Larmour and big Mike are likely the highest financial burden for Leinster. There's no way the Clarkson is on major rent! His next contact will probably be bumped up, but not to the level a lot of people think.

    I'd guess there's quite a few players around 100k and not much more.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Depends on who it is. Boyle had a lot of interest from abroad, and probably other provinces offering better roles. I’d assume him (on his next deal) and osborne for example make more than… russell.

    Its guys like Healy, Moloney, Deegan, Byrne who i’d expect are on a more than people think.

    I would like to know how strict the ‘don’t compete on money’ thing is between the provinces.

    If i had to guess highest non central deal, its probably someone like healy, kelleher, ross byrne. They are all essential (or were essential) to ireland and leinster to varying degrees and would be in high demand. Possibly forgetting someone.

    edit: lowe and jgp too, luke mcgrath probably made more than you’d think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    You could be right. Molony has been involved in most squads. So maybe he's rightly on a good chunk. Healy is probably on a salary consistent with his age and his experience.

    I would say Boyle is locked in with Leinster. Overseas sides would really have to overpay him to get him to leave. This is a 21 year old with very little experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,959 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Absent an injury to Beirne though, I don't see why both would start any game anyway.

    Complete aside, but Muster did exactly this, when Beirne was fit in the QF last season. They had 4. Kleyn 5. Snyman 6. Beirne 7. POM and 8. Coombes.

    It's a reasonable way to get more power into the back 5 of the pack, particularly when we know it's an area of weakness with regards the front-row. I think it's very possible we could have seen that more frequently had Snyman got an extended injury free run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Leinster's problem right now is Connors is expiring and I believe Deegan is also. Connors would not be expensive. His injury history and his low output of games played would be a factor. I just can't see him getting a large offer. Deegan on the other hand, would command a good salary and because he's behind Doris and Conan could be tempted to leave. Biding his time may not work. Conan at 31 is playing great rugby. I'd look at Deegan as a possible transfer to the top 14. Leinster have given Culhane minutes and seem to be backing him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Oops, forgot Cormac Foley and Soroka! Both players likely on introductory salaries.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I’d really like to get Deegan. He’s such a good player.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭scott1974


    Leinster injury update saying Ngatai did his calf and not his knee which is slightly more encouraging.



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