Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Podge_irl · 19-12-2023 11:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516332#Comment_121516332

He was fully fit for the match nonetheless. If he is such a massive game changer you would expect him to have started.

Absent the opportunity cost, I'm happy for him to be coming to Leinster. I still don't buy into the idea that he is a world changing lock who is in the top 5 or even 10 globally when the man hasn't started a competitive match in 4 years (or ever for his international side except Canada and Namibia).

This is the equivalent of someone coming in and saying Sean Cronin is a world beating hooker based on his appearances off the bench (I acknowledge I'm stretching this slightly, but only slightly. it is far easier to look good when you literally only ever come on at 50 minutes against tired opposition).

ersatz · 20-12-2023 12:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515975#Comment_121515975

Had that been a 1/4 final I honestly wonder who would have won. SA played the competition really well, Ireland played their opponents really well. This stuff comes up with Snyman too, arguments that he's not this or that, not a starter, etc. SA rotated and managed player minutes very successfully and won the competition with a squad in which he was a very important component. If he stays injury free I expect he'll make a major contribution to Leinster's run late in the season.

aloooof · 20-12-2023 12:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516359#Comment_121516359

Passed fit to play, yes. But it wouldn't be atypical in the slightlest for a player returning from injury, and with an injury history, to start from the bench.

You only need to look at his SA team-mate Pollard as a prime example. If he is such a massive game changer (and he was) presumably you would have expected him to start the QF and SF?

Podge_irl · 20-12-2023 12:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516383#Comment_121516383

He had returned from injury over 2 months beforehand and to a starting role a month prior. He started the QF until his HIA. He was match fit. If Munster genuinely believed he was such a massive game changer he would have started the final. Kleyn and Beirne were just better.

The Pollard situation is different in that respect in that he genuinely had no gametime. Also cause I will die on the hill that the Bok coaching team were floundering and didn't know exactly what they were doing but it somehow paid off. But I can appreciate how that won't be accepted and I'm possibly wrong.

Again, I'm happy to have him and he's obviously far better than Jenkins. But there is frankly a level of mythology around him at this point which is not backed up by anything.

aloooof · 20-12-2023 12:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516421#Comment_121516421

Well, exactly "returned.... to a starting role a month prior". I expect he would have retained that for the final had he not had 2 further injuries between his initial return and the final.

Dubinusa · 20-12-2023 02:39AM

Doris getting a cc, means that Coombes is unlikely to get a cc. Espionage by the irfu, Nucifora and the God's of war.

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-12-2023 02:42AM

Eh, why on earth would Coombes be getting a central contract? I'm not sure anyone regardless of province would be expecting that.

Unless this is some odd humour that is escaping me.

Dubinusa · 20-12-2023 02:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516665#Comment_121516665

Jesting! Our southern rivals are Coombes believers! 😆

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-12-2023 02:50AM

Mea culpa.

Rugbymad2020 · 20-12-2023 08:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515975#Comment_121515975

In a group game preparing for knockout stages.how did u get on again??

Finochet · 20-12-2023 09:20AM

Cosgrave has terrific potential on the ball, top end pace and looks to be a good inventive footballer. Alas though he's a reluctant defender, a no-no IMO for a prof rugby player. You can coach to minimize defensive weaknesses but you can't coach desire which sadly he appears to lack . Watch closely his speed to get back into line defensively versus his speed going forward. Just watch his defensive attitude full stop! I hope I'm wrong.

Buer · 20-12-2023 09:44AM

Thornley hinting in the Irish Time last night that a South African tighthead is on the cards for Leinster too.

And the Snyman contract is closer to €400k for a one year deal.

salmocab · 20-12-2023 10:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516877#Comment_121516877

By the time next season begins Snyman will be paying Leinster will be the story

jonok28 · 20-12-2023 10:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516877#Comment_121516877

I wonder who it is? I have a feeling it is Trevor Nyakane. He can play both sides of the scrum, is older enough so he isn't impeding the young prospects long term and is a quality scrummager. Also his contract is up this year at Racing.

20-12-2023 10:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515050#Comment_121515050

This isn't plausible, even when counting the central contract money in Leinster's wage bill.

Toulouse have a larger squad (52 players currently, plus 17 espoirs), versus Leinster who currently have a 44 man squad (plus 18 Academy players).

Both sides have a fairly incredible 29 internationally capped players in their squads, and while there are unquestionably some cheaper outliers in there (one of Toulouse's is a Spain international for example, Leinster's number includes guys like Ed Byrne & Rhys Ruddock who are unlikely to be on bumper money), but Toulouse's number doesn't include Emmanuel Meafou for example who is definitely on very good money after resisting Australia last year.

If you start going to the position groups that we know cost the most money - Toulouse are clearly a long way ahead of Leinster. In the half backs, I'd wager Antoine Dupont probably earns as much as Luke McGrath and JGP combined, and similar with Romain Ntamack versus Ross & Harry Byrne.

In the front rows, they have 7 international props including current French squad members Cyril Baille & Dorian Aldegheri plus a couple of former All Blacks in Laulala & Franks. While unquestionably Furlong, Porter & Ala'alatoa are on good money, there is no way the Leinster props group are earning anything close to what their Toulouse equivalents are, unless you think guys like Tom Clarkson are on comparable money to Owen Franks.

In the back three, Leinster only have 6 senior squad members, and that includes relatively inexpensive guys like Rob Russell and Tommy O'Brien, whereas Toulouse have all of Ange Capuozzo (who they signed from Grenoble), Blair Kinghorn (just signed from Edinburgh), Arthur Retiere (signed from La Rochelle), Juan Cruz Mallia and Thomas Ramos.

You can't overlook the fact they've signed a far higher proportion of their squad than produced them, so they've far lower guys on initial lower money deals (even French guys like Dupont, Flament, Jelonch etc were all signed in).

20-12-2023 10:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515572#Comment_121515572

Leinster have lost Stuart Lancaster, a great attacking coach, and Johnny Sexton, Ireland's greatest ever out half (and player), so naturally the attack is going to look a little less fluid right now.

I also think it's plausible that they've been devoting training minutes to embedding Nienaber's new defensive system (given he just landed relatively recently and it's a departure from how they've done things before), so you'll see some impact from that as well.

Still have scored a lot of tries and racked up a lot of quite big wins without much fuss this year.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3 · 20-12-2023 10:50AM

recent leinster u20 TH props at other provinces:

Jack Aungier(25/Suttonians RFC)
Sam Illo(22/Wesley)
Ronan Foxe(20/Tullamore RFC)

20-12-2023 10:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516877#Comment_121516877

No, that can't be. ~~Munster~~Ulsterunder20s has assured us that Snyman is commanding multiple offers of around €750k a year out there on the market.

How will he survive on a mere €400k at Leinster alongside the millionaires like Brian Deeny, Michael Milne and Lee Barron on their massive money deals?!

Podge_irl · 20-12-2023 11:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516479#Comment_121516479

Perhaps. I think he didn't set the world on fire in his starts and ultimately Munster decided Kleyn/Beirne was a better starting selection.

ionadnapóca · 20-12-2023 11:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516877#Comment_121516877

He didn't really say that! But none of us would be surprised if it happened. We now know Nienaber is the one leaking stories to GT.

Erasmus plan back in action - Get the lads into Leinster. Rest up for a few years before next WC. Coach the Lancaster out of them.

'But remember Jacques we must get Thornley onside....He has documented our sniveling & conniving ways at Munster. Give him a few 'scoops' & it will deflect away from our heroic deeds for moederland Suid-Afrika at Leinster.'

Cue evil Arjen Rudd laugh.

jonok28 · 20-12-2023 11:47AM

Rúaidhrí O'Connor saying that the RG Snyman deal is for one year and the IRFU more than likely won't sanction any extension. Saying that Leinster will be restricted in how much they can play Snyman and his signing is potentially obstructing Joe McCarthy, Ryan Baird, James Ryan and Ross Molony.

That is ridiculous.

Ryan Baird is a flanker mostly now. James Ryan and Joe McCarthy will get plenty of game time and Snyman actually saves both of their bodies from getting worn out. Ross Molony will still get game time but he isn't the necessary standard needed off the bench in Champions cup rugby.

You can't expect to pay that much for a player and then put stipulations on the signing especially when the IRFU aren't funding the deal.

20-12-2023 11:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517342#Comment_121517342

Large pinch of salt though in that Ruaidhri O'Connor is utterly clueless, and nowhere near the inside of something like that.

As people pointed out over on Leinsterfans, his article is full of weasel words like "we understand" and "it is understood" which are journalistic jargon for "I'm speculating...".

jonok28 · 20-12-2023 12:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517354#Comment_121517354

Exactly, I find it very hard to believe any stipulations come into play when you are spending a big amount of money on a player that the IRFU isn't paying for. If Snyman was to stay healthy and help Leinster win the Champions cup next season, I can't imagine that they would be in a rush to get rid of him especially if he wants to stay in Ireland.

20-12-2023 12:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517342#Comment_121517342

It's exactly what is happening Munster this year. Bernard Jackman has mentioned on this weeks 42 pod that Munster were told they can't play Kleyn and Snyman in the same squad this season.

It happened last year too when Munster signed Kiran McDonald as injury cover. They had to put an 18 year-old second row on the bench in an interpro when there was a fit, senior second row available to play.

20-12-2023 12:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517420#Comment_121517420

He was speculating about that - and wasn't even sure if it was that they can't start in the same 15, or be in the same squad. It's moot anyway almost given Snyman is missing till March (plus Kleyn is currently injured).

Even if it's true - that's also a different scenario - it's to stop two NIQ second rows starting together in the same team. Snyman will be the only NIQ second row in Leinster's squad.

ionadnapóca · 20-12-2023 12:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517342#Comment_121517342

Leaving aside the RGS stuff.

I hope Baird's days as a Lock aren't done yet. He's roughly the same age now as Beirne was when Cullen showed him the door. Post Scarlets he's been a world class lock for 5 seasons now.

Baird has massive potential. And its only this year during the 6N where he benched twice at lock and started v Eng in the GS game.

jonok28 · 20-12-2023 12:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517420#Comment_121517420

That makes sense for this season. Kleyn and Snyman are both NIQ players now. Leinster don't have that problem as he will be the only NIQ lock in the squad.

20-12-2023 12:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517439#Comment_121517439

IMO its unfair to any province to be stipulated how and when they can pay players they are funding. If they approve the signing, that should be it

jonok28 · 20-12-2023 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517457#Comment_121517457

I think Leinster will use Baird like England used Courtney Lawes. Use him as a hybrid. It is becoming clear that Leinster view Baird as there 6 for the foreseeable future.

20-12-2023 12:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517457#Comment_121517457

Don't see what Beirne has to do with it. Cullen didn't show Beirne the door because he didn't rate him - he was cut loose because he couldn't stay fit. You're implying here like Leinster have discarded Baird too, when he's starting regularly at blindside (his best position IMO), including the last two weeks in Europe.

Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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