Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

People are born disabled too though. It's not always acquired.

Anyway, since a large part of the debate is about access to specifically-required healthcare, it's far more like being disabled than it is like, say, being gay. Being gay just requires everybody else to leave you alone. Being trans usually requires lifelong drug treatment, and sometimes major surgery.

Given the costs of trans healthcare, it's perfectly reasonable for a country to want to ensure that numbers of trans people are not being artificially increased by, say, treating autistic people with temporary gender dysphoria as trans and setting them on a pathway to lifelong drug treatment and surgery when in fact their autism is simply making adolescence more challenging for them.

So a little more psychological support but NOT affirmation of their "trans" nature might well lead them to desist within a few years (as most children with GD that is not treated with puberty blockers do), numbers of trans people would be reduced, and nobody would die.

That was very long winded and didn't raise any points. They never even had a representiative. Poor show from TENI. I think they know it's indefensible.

She means reducing the amount of children getting pumped into the Transitioning programmes .....

Too many children being indoctrinated, hence Helens suggestion of reduction, and as previously stated, children's Transitioning has increased at a crazy rate just within the last few years ... many experts put this down to social contagion, spread by social media. Everybody want's to be non binary, or to be the opposite sex, and they're being led to believe that this can actually happen, while Helen Joyce is arguing that they're being fed a lie.

She hasn't said anything controversial.

But again the assumption is they are not actually trans and being misdiagnosed. That could have been said for gay people years ago. Are people who don't get surgery still refers to as trans? If so the sentence their numbers should be reduced can be compared to how gay people were thought of years ago by the conservative establishment.

It didn't used to be seen as clear. It was seen as something that could be solved by conversion therapy.

You haven't said why it's a bad comparison - I've explained why I think it's a good one.

As for who said it, that's not important, since we're just discussing whether or not it means "eliminating people" as Annasopra claimed, or whether it's similar to saying someone wants to see a reduction in the numbers of people with disabilities. It doesn't have to be official strategy for someone to suggest that maybe it should be.

So when Helen Joyce said that, was she calling for trans people to be eliminated or not? It's obviously totally hysterical to say she was - and someone who insists that's what she was doing is not making a serious case. They're just - well, being hysterical.

They absolutely are. So how would you reduce the number of people born with disabilities, or the number of people born as trans people?

Fine that's a reasonable opinion. The claim being made though was that she'd been calling for trans people to be eliminated. That's a lie, or at the very least a hysterical over-interpretation of what she actually said/wants.

Same way as you try to reduce eating disorders, you don't force feed people, you get them to realise that they are not looking at themselves objectively.

Trans have been involved in the lgbt movement even before the stonewall riots. Since before gays had any rights. The worse thing for the lgb folks is straight conservatives trying to limit their rights still based on a perceived gay agenda.

Did you read the article you quoted?

I was actually asking about cases involving people from Ireland though.

Same happened with left handed kids in school in the 60s, if you beat them often enough, they stopped being left handed.

If you actually allow people to be trans, then yes, more people will be trans. Why is this seen as a bad thing?

Have you spoken to many people with disabilities about your plan to reduce them? Because lots of people with disabilities would not agree with you. There is a view in the d/Deaf community in particular that they have a unique culture and anyone considering "curing" them can FRO. Some people in that community see measures such as cochlear implants as equivalent to using whitening soap to "cure" black people of being black.

It was far from voluntary when it was forced on you by your family or your community. It was, and is, abhorrent torture.

Surprise, surprise - people are different and people change. Why do want to impose your position on other people?

So why reference it? It doesn't say what you suggested it said. Is that your third or fourth attempt at disinformation about surgery for non adults?

So what is her plan to reduce trans people about? How is the reduction achieved?

Did it ever strike you that perhaps there could be a very very large difference between being a trans woman and "man liking/enjoying things that aren't uber macho"? These two scenarios aren't in the same ballpark.

Well I introduced Helen to this thread seeing as she's the author of a best selling book on the subject, she's also Irish and she's a bloody good antidote to the Trans lobby who hate her intellect. So many other experts in the field, from Maya Forstater to Julie Bindal, to Stella O'Malley, Rosie Duffield, Sall Grover (OZ), Peter Boghossian, Sharon Davies, not forgetting best selling author Andrew Doyle, the list of knowledgeable people goes on......