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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    On further thought in a Russian civil war scenario of one side nukes the other then the party who launched the nuke suddenly finds that their opponents have NATO and China on their side precisely because fallout knows no borders and the nutcases to start a nuclear war would need to promptly eliminated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭thomil


    The first question would be which part of Russia we're talking about. While Russia has dispersed its nuclear weapons throughout the country, its sheer size would mean that there are likely several provinces or republics without any nuclear weapons on their territory. Beyond that, I would imagine that there are likely no land-based nuclear weapons systems too close to the borders, or in the Caucasian republics either, for reasons of security. That leaves the region surrounding the Urals, the Russian Far East with the naval bases around Vladivostok & Petropavlovsk, as well as European Russia and the Kola Peninsula as areas of "concern".

    Then, there's the status of the nukes in question. From all that I've read, we should expect the ballistic missile submarines of the Northern and Pacific Fleets to be in the same state of readiness as their western counterparts. They regularly received funding even in the dark years and have been the recipients of a bulk of funds allocated to the navy, to a degree that even the ever-present corruption has likely not led to major issues. This would in turn mean that commanders might be less inclined to throw in with any potential "warlords" for lack of a better term, while the comparatively better funding would allow missile boats to slip their lines with relative ease if things start getting dicey. For the purposes of this thought exercise, we should take those submarines out of the picture. The same goes for most of the navy's tactical nuclear weapons, as they will for the most part be mounted on torpedoes or as depth charges, with only a few ones able to be mounted on cruise missiles. These will be of little to no use in a civil war which will be mostly fought on land.

    That leaves land-based ballistic missiles and air-dropped weapons, whether gravity bombs or cruise missiles. For most ballistic missiles, it will be a question of who can get their hands on the command posts of those missile units. The silo-based missiles themselves will likely be useless to anyone who captures the actual silo, as the launch command will come from one of these command posts. I'm not sure about Russia's road-mobile ICBMs, but I would imagine that they too will need some sort of go-code before they can actually launch. Also, ICBMs of all types have a minimum range as well as a maximum range, which means that these weapons might be of no use if the target is too close.

    The main concern here will be air-dropped weapons and those meant for use on SRBMs, and here, maintenance comes into play. While Russia has always held their nukes in higher regard than western nations, much of the focus has been on ICBMs and SLBMs, with short-range or "tactical" weapons of secondary concern. As such, there is a genuine question as to how many of these short-ranged weapons are actually operational or can be made operational in relatively short order. I'd say that there are no more than a few hundred of these weapons within the Russian arsenal, and how many of those would be captured by any warlord prior to them being sabotaged is questionable.

    Finally, there's the question of mindset. While the stereotypical wild-eyed general makes for great storytelling in Hollywood, most of those who are likely to rise to power in a second Russian Civil War will likely have a very well-developed sense of self-preservation. Even Putin is not completely balls-to-the-wall crazy, even though he clearly has issues. They will know that a use of nukes might get them a LOT of unwanted attention and as such, they will likely keep any nuclear weapons in their back pocket. In effect, these weapons will likely be most useful as a deterrent and/or a bargaining chip, just as they already are on an international scale.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec



    I expect Mad Vlad will get instructions from North Korea. The scheme that exists where North Koreans are kept in "camps" outside NK, where they do work for foreign businesses. Their wages are paid directly to the NK government, and the NK government pays them the minimum. The first time I heard about the scheme was in a documentary a few years ago, where the Edinburgh Woollen Mills was reported as having North Koreans working for them outside the NK border. Their goods used to be described as "Made in Scotland", which was changed to "Designed in Scotland". I don't know if they're still employing North Koreans since the scandal broke, but it didn't go down very well at the time. Mad Vlad could do the same for Russians working in Russia, and collect whatever tax he likes, he's that kind of bloke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Field east


    I wonder has putin /russia carried out the same strategy that was used when it allowed UKr to be a independant state by taking the nukes out of it - so that it , UKr would be at a huge disadvantage if war broke out. In other words is Putin storing his nukes and serious arnaments stuff in republics that he can trust?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Mar'inka has supposedly fallen today ,if they don't stabilisatise the current situation on the front lines they could lose more territory than they gains in the failed counter offensive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Lol. Marinka has supposedly been falling according to the Russians for weeks now. As they slog and throw bodies for the last few streets held by the Ukranians.

    And even if they do take it today that means absolutely nothing for the overall health of the frontlines, the Russians aren't about to blitz their way to the the edge of the Donbass given they've taken months and thousands of casualties to take 4 streets of Marinka. Which situation on the Ukranian frontlines isn't stable? Putins scumbags taking a few hundred meters every few days near Avdivka at enormous loss and then being pushed back doesn't count.

    How about Ukraine taking a chunk of highground north of Horlivka? Is that not worrying for the Russians? Does that not count in your land calculations? Or is it just negative news for Ukraine that interests you? Have you ever considered why you seem to have some an almost fetish like need for bad news?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭IdHidden


    Most of those comments are probably from the many Russian bots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    He said same about Avdiivka yet Russians continue to be turned into fertiliser


    there ^ despite claims of it being “captured”, and that’s the problem with regurgitating Russian news at some stage it leads to head scratching

    Anyways movement on the Hungarian front https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-12/hungary-says-it-may-lift-ukraine-aid-veto-if-eu-unfreezes-funds?sref=rOHF391B&leadSource=uverify%20wall



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    So beside 50 billion euro from EU about to be unblocked

    looks like the 61 billion dollars from US like I mentioned yesterday here that I highly doubted Democrats cared about the Wall as an issue (since they were the ones to add it into the package as distraction) also looks to be moving in right direction




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭zv2


    Hungary is blackmailing the EU and the republicans are blackmailing USA.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    What I said about adviika was they lost ground and despite the heavy losses the russians are inching forward...

    If your claiming otherwise your clearly not actually following what's going on currently in Ukraine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This is always the way with US politics.

    It does get the naiive and easily led out of the woodwork though.

    A republican looney bin candidate talked about ceding land to russia, that will be a talking point for that group again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭Roald Dahl



    I agree fully with you on this.

    The Russians finance all of the world's malcontents and cranks. Regardless of what they represent, as long as they oppose the local stability, the Russian KGB will be in the background with their dirty money and kompromat and they will always find willing takers and useful idiots.

    To a nation like Russia a victory does not necessarily have to be a victory for them. A victory is seeing a better and more propserous country suffer due to Russian interference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭AngeloArgue




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Field east


    I can picture UKr ‘losing ground ‘in certain places with a view to the Ru rushing in to occupy it and because the Ru would not have time to set up defence lines to secure it and they are in a confined area the UKr open up and the place becomes a Turkey shoot for the Ukr. .

    I would imagine that Ukr is not too worried about losing some land as long as it is very successful in eliminating a lot of Ru armoury and personnel

    is it not the case that the defender loses less than the attacker , in general



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    They've already lost most of their gains north of Bakhmut too. Hopefully they were just unfavorable positions to continue holding and it's not a trend.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Unfortunately its a misleading headline. Assuming the 315k figure is correct, and Ive no reason to doubt it, this includes all combatants on the Russian side, including DPR/LPR militias, Wagner mercenaries, non army infantry (VDV, Rosgvardia, Naval Infantry, Marines etc) and Storm Z troops etc.

    Russian propagandists often say that the Russian army has only lost 10% of the figure that Ukraine uses - c.30k. This is also potentially true from the point of view that if you exclude all combat deaths of soldiers who are not part of the Russian Army Branch of the Armed Forces, then you could get this figure.

    Its also possible that losses are disproportionately high amongst the mobilised and storm Z etc rather than longer serving contract soldiers.

    There is still a large amount of Russian side combatants still in Ukraine, probably bigger than the original invasion force of 190k odd.

    So a more accurate headline would be that total Russian side losses are equivalent to about 90% of the pre war army strength.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    That’s what the original headline from wsj I posted few pages back said ☺️

    IMG_4301.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    If Ukraine can get this funding from America and the EU I can see the tide of the war turning in their favour.


    Russia are throwing everything at Ardivka and taking massive losses.

    If Ukraine can push back with a lot of new kit heading into the winter where do Russia go from there?


    Putin knows time is running out.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    “There will be peace when we achieve our goals,” Putin said. “They haven’t changed. Denazification of Ukraine, the demilitarisation of Ukraine.”

    Just empty rhetoric to justify a continuation of a war he has failed to win, and has entered a Sunk Cost, Pyrrhic phase. Weakness? What choice did Eastern Europe have: Russia at Poland's borders won't bring peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Indeed. But it does imply one important detail. They suggest that 90% of their pre-war Army were lost meaning that (if true), only 10% of their entire proffesional & trained armed forces remain active and are working with a much larger cohort of PMCs, activated reservists and poorly trained mobniks.

    I'd be curious to see what the remaining pre-war 10% are actually used for. Has Putin held them in Russia to protect himself, or have they been doled out to the various divisions as command staff to ensure that at least some trained soldiers are working with the mobniks? Given the paniced response to the Wagner uprising a while back, I'd guess the latter has happened, and that beyond some token border guards, almost all of the army is in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    The article is not misleading and quite factual, but yes I can see how some people might just skim the headline and not read the details

    Either way it has been entertaining watching Putin’s supporters bend over backwards trying to downplay what for all intents and purposes has been a disaster

    This also explains why we are seeing ever higher casualty rates (lack of training for conscripts) and ever older WW2 era equipment being used (as evidenced by daily visually confirmed kills lists) by Russians

    Time is not on Russias side as everything is getting worse and worse for them in this Three Day War



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Its pure nonsense. On the one hand he says Ukraine has nothing without western military aid, yet on the other hand he says they needed to demilitarise Ukraine. It's patently obvious from the early days of the war that Ukraine was no military threat to Russia and was very far from being on a war footing.

    As for de-nazification? Apart from, as you say "empty rhetoric", is dislike of what you perceive a neighbour's internal politics to be now grounds for invading them? More nonsense.

    I didn't catch his speech any mention of the 3-day war? Will his boys be home by Christmas?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Apparently sanctions are not working yet Putin dedicated more of his time to talk about egg prices than the war




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    Nah, no boys home for Christmas. There is no point for Putin personally to back down from his megalomaniac stance. The only hope for the war's end is the removal of Putin from power. Even stupid fúcks who call for "peace talks" must understand that for Putin this means total surrender of Ukraine and the genocide of Ukrainian people.

    Hopefully, at some stage, Russian population gets tired of being treated like garbage and they rise up in a revolution as they have done before.



This discussion has been closed.
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