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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    And if they differ ( which they undoubtedly will)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Feel free to look it up yourself. The idea you are trying to put forward that if there are differences of opinion on interpreting the legislation and this means therefore some people may not get prosecuted is frankly downright bizarre. The Gardai, DPP and courts often differ in their opinions.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭freebritney


    Okay, do you acknowledge that under the new legislation you could walk into a Garda station and make a formal complaint that something I said or posted was hateful towards you even though it wasn't racial, sexual, homophobic or any of the other defined forms of hate speech.

    Could a Garda agree with your complaint and arrest me under the new bill?

    In the course of that investigation could the Gardaí seize my phone, laptop and other electronic devices?

    If I refuse to hand over the passwords can I be charged for this offence?

    If the DPP agrees with the Gardai that what i said was hateful can I then be sent forward for trial?

    Will it ultimately be up to a judge to decide if what I said to you was hateful or not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No. Its entirely logical.

    Hatred is an emotion, like love, that is impossible to define due to the inherent subjectivity.

    And, therefore , this legislation is fatally flawed, and is widely recognised as such.

    If you can define hatred, I will reconsider my position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭TokTik


    I wonder if FFs deputy mayor of Limerick would fall foul of the new hate speech legislation

    IMG_6116.jpeg IMG_6117.jpeg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No

    The guards wouldn't something like that because it's not in the bill

    It wouldn't go near the courts or DPP.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭freebritney




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    No need to putting words like extreme or serious hate, we need to be proud and say it like it is. This is needed so that people who have problematic viewpoints on important issues can't broadcast those views and gain popularity among a gullible public. People like Graham Linehan or John McGurk for example could easily be put under investigation using this and even if a conviction isn't got then more and more cases or investigations can be activated until they give up and learn to keep quiet. Hopefully this will be an example to other people and they then won't try to speak out and our society will be much the happier for it. The greater good if you will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'm not asking to reconsider your position.

    Hate Speech has been against the law where it incites hatred since 1989. The law is being updated. It's that simple.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭BagofWeed


    Can't agree with that. AGS are well known for going for low hanging fruit and a law like this will have the curtain twitchers rubbing their hands with glee and some people will no doubt be reporting people out of spite. It'll be easy work for some of our more work shy Gardaí.

    It feels like a paralysis from the lack of political leadership has filtered down throughout the country and everyone is going mad lately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Would they/Could they - same thing.

    Your proposed scenario makes no sense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Well, tht's one concern for sure.

    But the scope for "weaponisation" of this legislation ( as it is currently proposed) is vast. It is a cranks charter.

    And time will show its a big mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    But it's not about Gardai investigating every little tittle tattle going. 😶

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    If its as simple as you suggest, then simply define hate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭PaulieC




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It's not difficult to look up a dictionary yourself 😶

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭freebritney


    Of course it makes sense. If Alan Shatter walked into his local Garda station and made a formal complaint about an individual who posted "From the River to the Sea" on twitter are you telling me they wouldn't take it serious if the new legislation was in place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    Ms BigMac said it to me at the dinner table. I immediately shut her down and said likely it’s nonsense, but then again if it’s a law on hate speech and the crime is believed to be in your phone maybe it does give them the right or else it could be seen as concealing a crime?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    I wouldnt call it censorship just protecting society from minority opinions, we need to be protected and like we have been talking about previously, instill fear in the population that diverges from rhetoric that promotes the common good. This legislation will be used in such a way. Like if a child sees another child burn his hand on the stove they are much less likely to touch the stove themselves. Plus in future years these types of laws could easily be adapted to crack down further on other types of undesirable behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Ignoring idiots who comment "far right" because they don't even know what it means



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    Hate is whatever you make it my friend, criticizing government policy is pretty hateful for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    You must be joking surely? This is the slippery slope of censorship, politicians in general do not like social media. Well to be more nuanced, they love social media for putting out press releases and uploading photos of themselves at such and such a place. But they very much dislike social media when people challenge them on their records, state alternative opinions and give them real feedback.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    criticizing government policy is pretty hateful for example.

    I seriously don't even know who the trolls are or aren't anymore.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Independent Senator Sharon Keoghan (ex-FF and ex-Meath County Council) not impressed with this legislation's draconian provisions:




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