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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There is no question in your post.

    You claimed 50-6o cases - no back up for that yet.

    You claimed ‘loads’ of expulsions. There were 5 mentioned in the article, a number of them over the same incident.

    All parties have expelled members, there is nothing particularly unusual in that. Haven’t they just let Bertie back into FF?



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    prove he was in the IRA and sure he'll lose - surely? Shouldn't be that hard to prove he was in the IRA apparently. Unless of course that cant be proved. but then that'd be completely against the justice system to be accusing someone of something you cant prove.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'Proof' is only demanded when allegations are made against some in this country.

    I think that is why you see cases being taken against newspapers now.

    Obviously the new leadership of SF are no longer going to be held to account or responsible for stuff that happened when they were, in the most recent round of allegations,(Mary Lou and the Ben Dunne kidnaping) 12 yrs of age when it happened or not even born in other cases.

    The message seems clear, if you make an allegation or insinuate, be prepared to stand over it in a court.

    Nobody would dream of holding a young FFer to account for the crimes of Charlie Haughey or a FGer for Lowry's crimes. It would be patently ridiculous to do that.

    Nobody would ask that FF or FG members renounce those who brought about independence via killing and kidnapping and disappearing either. There is zero problem on the high moral ground with that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭rock22


    I have read their report. here is their own press freedom index

    Ireland is number 2 globally by THEIR OWN criteria.

    But they have decided, presumably at the behest of a journalist here, entered in to a party political row with Sinn Fein. What is more, they are asking MMcD to stop her TDs taking legal action. At the same time Sinn Fein being criticised for being too centric and autocratic. Yet they have not made any criticism of any other political party in Europe where, by their own criteria , press freedom is in more danger.

    So yes , I call them out on it. I would rather put trust in our own legal system than the howling of a press mob who wan to to stop the matter coming into open court.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yet they have not made any criticism of any other political party in Europe where, by their own criteria , press freedom is in more danger.

    Again, simply looking through their recent posts on the topic would show you are incorrect....again. Hell some of the links I posted for their recent articles show this to be incorrect so you didn't even have to go to their site to see you are wrong

    Its like you are burying your head in the sand and ignoring all the evidence that would show you are wrong.

    Is this a SF thing because another SF poster does the exact same thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭rock22


    "Again, simply looking through their recent posts on the topic would show you are incorrect....again."

    I have read your links. None concern rsf involving itself in a party political dispute.

    What is being argued here is some journalists criticising the right of someone going to court to vindicate their good name. They seem to believe that , as journalists, they must be able to write whatever they like , without consequences. I have no idea what the IR article said about Chris Andrews TD. But, since he threatened to sue, there has been a relentless media campaign, now including the rsf, to stop that case. I would have more faith in our courts system than I do in the 'press'. Just look at what the 'press' have managed to do in both the US and UK to learn why they must be held to account. Whether the IT were right or Andrews is right, I see nothing wrong with the matter being decided by our courts and not by the media.

    But i find it extraordinary that the rsf wants to involve itself in this in Ireland, a country the rsf itself rank as second in the world for press freedom, when they are not criticising similar cases in other jurisdictions.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A few things

    1. You say no bullying happens, I provide multiple reports it does, you ignore those
    2. You say nobody was expelled for bullying, I provide reports that multiple people have been, you ignore those
    3. You demand I answer your questions, yet ignore any put to you
    4. You gaslight every piece of evidence put to you
    5. I gave you reports of approx 25 people involved in bullying, harassment and psychological warfare within SF, with multiple accounts from former SF members, you ignore it all

    You have zero intention of reasoned argument based on evidence and facts and prefer to gaslight and give credence to conspiracy theories.

    Based on all that, and the fact you ignore every piece of evidence shown to you, why on earth do you think I would provide more evidence for you to just ignore and gaslight. If the approx 25 shown already means nothing to you, then its unlikely a further 25 will have any effect so why would I bother?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1. You say no bullying happens, I provide multiple reports it does, you ignore those. No I haven't
    2. You say nobody was expelled for bullying, I provide reports that multiple people have been, you ignore those. I questioned your use of 'loads' expelled and reminded you that all parties expel members
    3. You demand I answer your questions, yet ignore any put to you. I asked you to re-ask your question, you haven't as yet
    4. You gaslight every piece of evidence put to you. Allegations are NOT evidence, I have reminded you no court or tribunal have found anyone guilty of bullying to the extent alleged. Pretending allegations are evidence would be closer to 'gaslighting' tbh.
    5. I gave you reports of approx 25 people involved in bullying, harassment and psychological warfare within SF, with multiple accounts from former SF members, you ignore it all. No I don't. What you are ;giving' are allegations made by former members of the party who may or may not have agendas. None of these allegations are accompanied by any evidence.


    I have asked for that evidence. You have not provided any. Again an allegation is NOT evidence, if it was imagine the round up of the guilty we would have to do across the political spectrum.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Does 'gaslighting' mean anyone with a different opinion answering you back or RSF?

    Are people supposed to fall prostrate in front of what are 'allegations' and differing opinion?

    What do you mean?



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd explain it to you but you would ignore it so why bother 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think you just gave all the explanation necessary. You are just using an edgy buzzword or don't understand the word to begin with.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The pension time bomb is ticking away. By not increasing the pension age to 67 the govt has a gapping hole to fill. Part of it is filled by the wealth fund, part is filled by PRSI increases, but it won't be enough to cover the rising pension costs

    The bonkers SF solution? Reduce the pension age to 65, don't increase PRSI, put money aside, but spend it before its needed for pensions. Do they get their economics degrees inside cereal boxes?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,029 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The mad thing is their voter base would be far younger than either FG or FF, these are the exact people who need to have the pension time bomb explained to them and who can understand its future impacts on their lives. IE being honest and telling people in their 20s and 30s that there will be no state pension for them and to start prepping for it is far easier than telling people in their 50s. However in saying that their voter base is also far less financially literate or educated so doing so is going to be a tricky task and seemingly they have decided as usual to just take the populist and therefore easy way out.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Are you making this up? Can you show us where SF have said this?

    but spend it before its needed for pensions.

    Plus, can you explain why the government have not changed the pension age if they believe it should be 67 to defuse this 'timebomb'?



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No idea why you keep asking me questions. I've stated numerous times already that as you refuse to answer any put to you, I shall return the favour

    Whats good for the goose and all that jazz



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Whatever.

    Funny you get shy when challenged. You just ignore challenges to your proclamations. Like these for instance where I addressed your 'questions':

    I asked you to re-ask your question, you haven't as yet


    You say no bullying happens, I provide multiple reports it does, you ignore those. No I haven't

    You say nobody was expelled for bullying, I provide reports that multiple people have been, you ignore those. I questioned your use of 'loads' expelled and reminded you that all parties expel members

    You demand I answer your questions, yet ignore any put to you. I asked you to re-ask your question, you haven't as yet

    You gaslight every piece of evidence put to you. Allegations are NOT evidence, I have reminded you no court or tribunal have found anyone guilty of bullying to the extent alleged. Pretending allegations are evidence would be closer to 'gaslighting' tbh.

    I gave you reports of approx 25 people involved in bullying, harassment and psychological warfare within SF, with multiple accounts from former SF members, you ignore it all. No I don't. What you are ;giving' are allegations made by former members of the party who may or may not have agendas. None of these allegations are accompanied by any evidence.


    I have asked for that evidence. You have not provided any. Again an allegation is NOT evidence, if it was imagine the round up of the guilty we would have to do across the political spectrum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    We all know you are SF till you die, but have you even read their last election manifesto? Their math does not math. Should they get into power (potentially with some weird leftist consortium - imagine Paul Murphy or RBB with even a sniff of power)- one of 2 things will happen. 1. They ride the exchequer until the arse falls out of it and do not make it to the next election or 2. They talked their way in government, dont do anything they are screaming from the rafters about, hang around long enough to get those ministerial pension entitlements and get booted out the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How many manifestos have been met in governments since the foundation of the state would you say?

    I expect SF to meet as many as previous governments and to run the state.

    If they are just the same as FG FF then they will not get a vote from me next time out.

    Nobody is assured of my vote in other words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sinn Fein as we have seen is all noise. Once you start to question them on how it will work it falls to pieces. Once you get past the faux outrage show by Pearse on every topic you end up with nothing. I thought the guy was a good TD but honestly he has dropped down the ranks very quickly.

    Of course some people lap up the faux outrage, the ripping of his mask off to show how outraged he is etc. Not me. The alternative budgets that have come out would be an embarrassment to any other finance Minister. The huge deal they made about taxing everyone over 140k to pay for all the gret work they would do, then a few months later it was 100k. Today? well who knows. That's a 28% error. Unbelievable. Nobody can excuse such a huge error and once that happened Pearse should have been moved out of Finance for Sinn Fein but sure who else do you put in?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Do you know why FF FG and the Greens have not made the retirement age 67 if we have a ticking timebomb?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,029 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    For the same reason SF arent doing it, they are all terrified of the grey vote and having to explain properly to the country that the pension system as it currently works will be unfundable by 2040 without HUGE income tax increases.

    You can disagree all you want but the facts are we are at 4:1 workers to retireees now and will be at 2:1 by 2050. Far too many people are still 100% reliant on the state pension and there will simply not be enough tax payers to fund it based on current rules in 20 years time. If we doubled our birthrate tomorrow things might be recoverable but we would still have a rough 10 years before the people born start working and paying tax.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So much for the Sinn Fein tag-line of "Change"

    Even their hardcore supporters know that's a load of nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,083 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So it's safe to say FF/FG/Grs are not dealing with this timebomb.

    Will you vote for them? What about you @Clo-Clo @[Deleted User] is it a deal breaker for you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It is funny, I see a video from the Ard Fheis with Sinn Fein going on about "Change". How many times can we say Change in a speech.

    "A government that will get the basic right", how any Sinn Fein member can say this when you look at Northern Ireland. The guys talking is MP for North Belfast, wonder what basic he has managed

    Also complaining about FG and FF in the video. Someone should tell them they need a coalition by all forecasts.

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czi-Dd6okdd/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,029 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Well FG were trying to by pushing for increases to the pension age which FF and SF were against and thus the idea was scrapped, SF are also against the prsi increase. So currently SF oppose all solutions and offer no alternatives that i have seen.

    I dont know who I will be voting for yet but FG are the only ones talking sense on this issue.



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