Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Okay, so you cannot post anything which shows it is the policy or objective of the Israeli Government or IDF to commit Genocide in Gaza.

There are plenty of crazy people in Israel and they have their own religious fundamentalists, most of them live in illegally occupied land in Gaza, who think they have a mandate from their God to commit mass murder. I don't think a scumbag like Netanyahu would have a problem with it but Israel is a democracy and that limits him and the nutters who keep him in power.

The oft cited Oliver J Flanagan speech. Flanagan was a moron who rode a bike with “here comes Oliver J Flanagan” on the front and “there goes Oliver J Flanagan” on the back at election time.

The Limerick “pogrom” was a vile anti semetic outburst but to call it a pogrom is hyperbole. No one died, no one was seriously injured. Those involved in stone throwing received harsh sentences and the priest you mentioned was Fr. Creagh rather than receiving strong church support as you say, was rebuked, censored and eventually exiled to the Pacific.

5 families left Limerick as a result of the “pogrom”.

It is also incorrect to claim only 2 politicians spoke out against these events. For example John Daly, the mayor of Limerick condemned them.

There are few countries in Europe with a less violent history with Jewish people than Ireland.

Even in England there were anti Jewish riots and “pogroms” even after the war, such as in Manchester in 1947.

oh look what is happening over there! One doesn't excuse the other. Israelis celebrating the suffering of Palestinians and calling for incineration of Gaza should not be excused. Any equivocation from you and there is only one conclusion that can be drawn .

I think that Netanyahu is a contemptable lowlife who should be in prison for corruption. I think it is to the shame of the Israeli people that they elected him into power. I have posted here already that Hamas and Netanyahu have the common objective of removing the possibility of a two state solution.

None of that means Israel plans to or will commit Genocide. If that was there objective there would be hundreds of thousands of dead Gazans by now.

I understand what you’re saying and I partially agree. However I find they methods in which they are using to eliminate Hamas abhorrent and essentially collective punishment. Whether or not it’s in official policy, in my view the withholding of aid, water, fuel, food, forced movement etc is a genocidal attack/ethnic cleansing. It remains to be seen if the international court of law will agree only time will tell but the fact it’s being debated across channels, governments tells me I’m not alone in that view either.

Is this what you guys are reduced to? Me suggesting that in a very heavy traffic thread of 20K posts that there have probably been some isolated posters who dropped in and posted in favour of Hamas. Note, I said probably, I haven't even seen this but the law of averages would suggest it is likely to have happened.

And this is what you are pinning your arguments on? No evidence to present yourselves but using my words suggesting a possible occurrence as some how evidence that the thread is rife with this.

If what you are talking about was occurring you'd be linking posts or naming posters but you've done nothing of the sort.

This is embarrassing. Or at least it should be if you were being objective.

Now, this attempted redirect of all of you came about after I posted a number of posts last night that showed video evidence of An Israeli politician advocating the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza, an Israeli PM advocating for a new Middle East at the UN with Palestine removed entirely and Israeli civilians and military personnel speaking of their desire to destroy everything that exists in Gaza, all its people and to occupy what remains.

I posted this after a pro-Israel contributor here said repeatedly that they should finish their mission but wouldn't suggest what that mission was. So I showed him.

So accept the evidence of genocidal intent that is displayed from several Israeli angles or counter with how all of this evidence should be ignored. Or if you want to talk about evidence of Hamas supporters, challenge such supporters when (if) they appear.

You've all proven more this morning your ambivalence, if not tacit support (or more) for the genocide of a nation of people than we've seen on here in quite a while (well, maybe just since the display of racism we saw yesterday).

I listed multiple examples of the type of Hamas supporting that is going on - recopied below.

The poster I was discussing it with even acknowledged that there are Hamas supporters on the thread.

There has been quite a few posters supporting or defending Hamas over the course of the thread. Those who won't condemn them for their atrocities, the "just asking questions" brigade. Those who insinuate the entire operation was some sort of Israeli false flag operation. There were even some posts in the early stages of the thread with posts virtually cheering on Hamas, what's that phrase - sneaking regard, no doubt from those who were the sort to cheer on terrorism here.

If you think no one is supporting Hamas, you just haven't been paying attention to the thread.

I see the well known Auschwitz Memorial page on Twitter has run into major trouble for posting a lengthy tweet essentially fully endorsing Israel's military actions in Gaza and barely even mentioning the plight of innocent Gazan civilians - people who have been following the page for years saying they are shocked by their stance.

I agree that the Hamas attacks didn't happen in a vacuum. I have a big problem with the narrative which frames this as a conflict which originates with or is sustained by Israel. There are multiple players in this, as there always has been. The Palestinian Arabs are a tool of their Arab neighbours, which those neighbours have used in various ways over generations with callous disregard for their Arab brothers and sisters to attack Israel, America and each other. Any discussion about peace and war, conflict or settlement, cause and motive, which does not include the broader regional players is at best ignorant and most probably disingenuous. That's why I find myself advocating for Israel here. Not because I support their government or their policies in Gaza and the West Bank, on the contrary I most certainly don't, but because the popular narrative around this conflict is constructed on the false premise that Israel is the root cause and a solution is within their gift.

I'm reminded of the words of the late and great journalist Robert Fisk. An expert on the region.

When asked about impartiality and bias, he said that he 'was biased on the side of the oppressed'.

The conflict, like most conflicts, is not something physical as such that we can apply hard rules to or treat like a science experiment where there is a definitive outcome that we can use to determine cause and effect etc.

The Jewish people have a terrible history of being persecuted, or maybe I should say people of Jewish faith since the term 'Jewish people' seems to have been hijacked by Zionists, and at a local and individual level worldwide are probably terrified of being targeted again to various degrees. And any such acts should be denounced, and perpetrators identified and prosecuted or handled appropriately. There is no confusion about this. I posted a link at the weekend showing Nazis marching in Wisconsin and I said how dangerous that is and a sign of very bad things.

But the Palestinian community is, and has been persecuted on a macro level for generations, and they are the ones being killed or literally having their lives destroyed in their tens of thousands at the hands of a state led by extremists, intent in their obliteration. And while some will immediately respond with claims that that is what Hamas says of Israel, Hamas, according to Israel has 40,000 members, It has no army, navy, airforce, equipment or funding that is even a fraction of what Israel has. With the might of the US supporting Israel also.

There are many Israeli's and Jewish people calling for a ceasefire, but these are unfortunately not in power in the Knesset. What is, is carrying out genocide, not saying they want to while not having the means to even think about it.

They're also blocking Jewish people responding to them asking for a ceasefire. Quite depressing.

I agree that Flanagan was a buffoon but he was a popular one and he reflected public opinion.

The Lord Mayor was quiet enough about the Boycott and stoning's in Limerick but he did speak out against the Church of Ireland Bishop who criticised the attacks and boycott. Arthur Griffith also spoke against the Jews and in favour of the Boycott. A short time later he founded Sinn Fein. Admittedly the modern reincarnation of Sinn Fein see nothing wrong with blowing up children so Griffith was better than them but that's a very low bar by which to be measured.

The page has been a very moving one over the years - posting a photo every day of a victim (often a child) of the Holocaust. But to come out supporting the military action of a regime and barely even acknowledge that many innocent civilians have been killed is very jarring.

Well no, I was challenging the statement that there were no Hamas supporters on the thread. Do you agree or disagree with this statement, because implicitly your post acknowledges that there are?

So if you disagree, baffled as to why are you replying to my post and not the post that made the false statement.

It is not a major view, but nor is it non-existent, insignificant or isolated either. I listed several different types.