Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

19279289309329331120

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The tax system was changed in 2018/19 and introduced in 202, has nothing to do with Eamonn Ryan or the Green Party. That is my understanding of when it got changed?


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/major-changes-to-motor-tax-proposed-for-upcoming-budget-1.3959563



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Bingo. The fun will be when SF do get into government and stay along the exact same trajectory who will the most vocal blame then? or what more commonly happens is they suddenly switch and fully support the policies they spent years complaining about.

    You think the public in general are going to be happy if SF continue raising carbon taxes and implementing other economy retarding measures? Same circus different clowns if that happens, and they won't get a second term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sinn Fein will continue along the exact same path and the people shouting about the Green policies now will be telling you how great they are because Sinn fein put them forward.

    Honestly it won't be "same circus different clowns", SF bring a whole new level to clowns and not in a good way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    A few people here using wood pellets, how much a tonne are are they



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Aye, and it's failure to stick to the Irish govts own Act that causes trouble for the govt.

    In this case, the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 (the 2015 Climate Act).

    Maybe you are not aware, the courts already killed a poor attempt by the previous govt to fob off the electorate with a nonsense climate action plan (The National Mitigation Plan 2017)

    In the case, the Supreme Court quashed the Government of Ireland's 2017 National Mitigation Plan on the grounds that it lacked the specificity required by the Irish Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 (the 2015 Climate Act). The Supreme Court ordered the government to create a new plan which was compliant with the 2015 Climate Act.

    In addition, due to the fact that the current plan still can't show how targets will be met, a new legal challenge has been mounted (Sept this year) and is very likely to be successful. This will lead to the govt of the day having to draft an even more effective CAP with actions that can more easily be shown as able to achieve the required targets

    I'm honestly giddy at the idea of SF being forced to implement greener policies than the green party. It will be a sight to behold



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The increases in the carbon tax up to 2030 is locked in and was voted for by SF

    They also voted for the Climate Action Plans, plural



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That reminds me

    Do you recall Mannix Flynns legal challenge to that famous bike lane trial you opposed.

    Do you recall how I said it would result in a raft of changes to allow for trials to proceed in future without risk of such legal challenges?

    Take a look

    It's a hilarious legacy for Mannix. His legal action will do more to progress the rollout of protected bike lanes than any Transport Minister since the foundation of the state.

    Thanks Mannix 😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Went up in price like everything else but coming back down, about 570 delivered is what you are looking at for 960KG



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    It was changed then, but brought in originally in 2007 on the back of the GP in government when taxing on CO2 emissions was a way to lower emissions. In the end, they were wrong and drove diesel sales through the roof, actually increased CO2, increased NOx and lost revenue through lower motor tax for higher HP, bigger engined diesels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The change in 2007 was based on the information at the time, what nobody knew was the car manufacturers had cheated the testing system so the data which the decision was based on was incorrect

    The change in 2020 was as big if not bigger change to the 2007 change, totally changing the import business in Ireland, well not changing it but shutting it down



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Disagree with ya there. 520d BMWs were taxable at €120. Massive change. The 2020 update introduced more tax bands and the NOx levy which is pretty minor. The collapse in imports had nothing to do really, bar maybe a small hit, with tax. It was down to Brexit where imports were now subject to 23% VAT on top of VRT and the new NOx levy. It's the VAT that killed the industry.

    The manufacturers (namely VAG) were cheating on NOx, not CO2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    All of the manufacturers cheated, VW had the highest profile because the US went after them, mostly because they pushed diesel into the market and it pissed off the likes of GM. If you search you will find nearly every dealer from Nissan to Merc got hit with fines. After all the software that was created was done by Bosch who supplier all car manufacturers. The system was never introduced to move the entire fleet to diesel, that was the fallout of the dodgy tests.

    Plus I don't think anyone could predict people would swap perfectly good cars to reduce a yearly tax.

    NOx was only really discussed many years after the change in 2007, that was my recollection. The article I found(below) is from 2016 and that was my recollection of when this came up, nearly 10 years after the change

    Its 16 years ago now the change in car tax yet it's fired up all the time. Like before the 2007 change was the car tax system the same since it was introduced?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    By the way do I agree with the change in 2007? not really because I felt it skewed the system the wrong way. But it's 16 years and I can see why it was made back in 2007



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    For someone who has no time for the Green Party and never voted for them, with you spending so much time defending them against anyone who is not enthralled by them you are beginning to come across like another poster here who likewise says he has no connection to them, has never voted for them either, yet has defended even the most inane Ryan utterances and could not bring himself to make even the most minor of criticism of the actions of green "warriors" sneaking around at night slashing tyres. Even to the extent that you included one of his posts in your reply.

    I`m very aware of how government works and how coalition governments are formed. A negotiated programme for government allows the tail of the dog party to have policies included that, with their seat numbers, otherwise would never see the light of day. It also leaves them with a card to play of collapsing the government if they do not get their way.

    Did it ever cross your mind that those rotten corpses of minor government parties were due to the electorate not being much enamoured by the results of those policies and showed that the next time they got the chance ?

    As I said, on the 3rd world it doesn`t matter, but for someone who earlier in the day thought billions had been wasted on food programmes you now appear to see it as money well spent.

    Best of luck with the hope that SF if it is the next goverment will suddently drop all it`s promised large spends on housing, health etc in favor of green policies. Especially with a tax-take predicted to shrink.



  • This content has been removed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    We agree. But none of that has anything to do with the tax change as it was based on CO2, and the cheating was for NOx.

    The understanding of CO2 may have been the right thing at the time, but hindsight showed the stupidity of it. Namely, big powered cars now taxed for a song. I'd disagree on the mass behavioral change. It's what the tax was designed to do. Now if the thinking was wrong then, what else is being implemented now that is wrong? We know bundling methane as equivalent to CO2 is wrong, yet it's not being rectified (GWP100 vs. GWP*).

    I agreed with it as the lower polluting cars should be incentivised and that's what it did. The practicalities though resulted in bigger, dirtier vehicles on the roads, with more maintenance as diesels weren't suitable for many urban dwellers, but the cheap tax enticed them to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not defending them. As I am trying to point out to you which is failing that shouting about the green party is pointless because all of the government parties support the current policies, including the opposition.

    I agree with some of the policies the government(including the Greens) have implemented and I don't agree with a lot more. I'm not stupid enough to think removing the Green Party from government will suddenly change the path they have already started down.

    The reason the minor partner is a rotten corpse is because they get lumped with all the blame for decision made by the bigger parties. Example the banning of turf, which was planned by both FF and FG before the last election only they couln't agree on a plan, running out of time. Post election when the public went against the turf ban but FF an FG blamed the Green Party :-) that's before we start about the electric stations closed by FG which most people on see online blame the Green Party who wasn't in government at the time the decision was made.

    You could say that is defending Green Party, to me that is just telling the truth about what actually happened. Will that mean I vote for Green next election? No. Do I care if you believe me....not a chance.

    In regards to Sinn Fein from their 2023 Alternative Budget, see below, they are talking about speeding up the investment in renewables. Not slowing it down. I suggest you read what the parties are actually proposing, seems it is exactly as I predicted

    Investing to accelerate the transition to renewable energy and to better leverage the benefits for all, including through increased investment in domestic solar PV and the tiering of grant supports by household income to ensure equity of access, rolling out solar PV across our schools, speeding up the state’s electrification of heat, increasing funding for innovation in renewable energy, investing in our ports and resourcing the planning system to speed up the development of renewable generation – cost €133 million

    https://vote.sinnfein.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Sinn-Fein-Alternative-Budget2024.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The car tax system will be massively overhauled again in the next few years, after the next election I would expect. Probably based on weight or a per km system.

    At this stage we need a system to move people from cars to public transport.

    Also at the moment the system is trying to move everyone to electric cars which is ridiculous. Swapping 1 m cars to 1m electric cars is crazy and the incentives should be taken away and put into public transport, at the moment the incentives are just filling car manufacturers pockets. This is a bigger issue with the World market and unfortunately for Ireland we have no option but follow the others because the main car companies don't give a **** about our market, we are too small. But we do need to stop giving tax breaks to electric cars.


    More interesting than an of these is we need a proper system to replace the SEAI grant system which is broken for years. That's a bigger immediate issue. One which all parties including the Greens seem to be unwilling to fix



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I agree the motor tax is due an overhaul. I don't think weight should be the way to go. It should be based on km driven or something fair across the board.

    Cars give freedoms that PT doesn't and it's a hard sell to move without a properly funded, integrated, functional, reliable and widespread PT system.

    Th EV grants are being phased out. Again, if moving to EVs is the goal, phasing that out isn't the right approach. The 1m electric cars by 2030 was pure bullshit. If they hit that by 2035 I'd be amazed. A better incentive would be to encourage reuse. Keep older cars on roads longer instead of trading perfectly good working cars for new ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭creedp


    No problem incentivising people to buy new cars if it means their used cars are avaliable at reasonable prices to people looking to get rid of their older dirtier cars. A win win for the environment, in particular air quality in more urban areas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I agree, we are scrapping too many good cars for silly reasons. I have no idea what next tax system should be but certainly someone in a built up town/city using a SUV like Q7 to drop 1 kid down the road to school is ridiculous. So weight might stop that more than a per km rate

    We need a proper rail system which connects all of Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,257 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Cars are already heavily taxed on km's driven. The duty on fuel is astronomical already and only going one way. It should be a flat registration fee for any car and if you want to do lots of mileage or drive a gas gussler then you are already taking a big hit.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`ll go throught that when I have time and reply.

    I`m the meantime somewhat amused that prople seem to belive if SF were in government tomorrow they would just carry on with The Green Party`s policies based om a few vague words from Mary Lou, when early this year Eamon Ryan accused SF of displaying outright hostility to the environmental agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    According to SIMI there's over 42000 imported second hand cars, newly registered in Ireland to mid October this year, the import business is alive and well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    less than half of what was been imported in 2016 etc with over 100,000 per year.

    Seemingly changes been made so expect import up next year

    Woulf be interested to see the average value of those cars, it only makes sense if electric or hyrid(plug in) so so expect all high end cars



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Is you are displaying your true colours - rudeness personified.

    Not sure if this has been posted yet: seeing as examples suiting certain peoples ideals are posted here ( no matter where in the world it emanates from ), the Dutch have reversed their decision on capping flights into & out of Schipol:

    https://ittn.ie/travel-news/netherlands-abandons-proposal-to-limit-flights-at-amsterdam-schiphol-airport/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20ITTN%20eBulletins&utm_content=Daily%20ITTN%20eBulletins+CID_525a36091baa01760465fab496f58816&utm_source=CFEmail&utm_term=Netherlands%20Abandons%20Proposal%20to%20Limit%20Flights%20at%20Amsterdam%20Schiphol%20Airport



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    It is disappointing to see no right of centre party exist in Ireland. There are some more on the left/socialists side of things like PBP and SF.

    And with right of centre i mean parties that see the threat of ever growing EU commission power and the taking of civil liberties. That question wars/NATO involvement, immigration and 'diversity' policies.

    They are certainly there in other EU countries even in small ones similar to Ireland like Denmark.

    There are mainly a whole bunch of parties in the middle who seem to agree with one another but disagree on the means..



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This figure has been deconstructed elsewhere and it is pure makey upper. It's tedious when it is dragged out ad-nusium as if it is fact. I treat it with the respect it deserves and hence my very reasonable observation.



Advertisement