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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,697 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    If size is your logic, surely a pedestrian being hit by a bus is far worse than an SUV so why not ban them too? Plus, not all SUVs are particularly large.

    Given the generally superior visibility from an SUV, you'd imagine there'd be fewer collisions too, than with a low sitting saloon or a bulky bus.

    Plus, a lot of road deaths appear to be vehicle passengers rather than pedestrians. What gives a pedestrian's safety the priority over the safety of a passenger's general safety for other accident types (eg vehicle to vehicle or vehicle to object collision). Surely this class of frame hasn't just developed because it looks pretty and consumers are buying based on practical advantages such as their own safety in an accident?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo



    Nobody said burning wood doesn't emit CO2, I said it will emit less than a solid fuel stove and it's a better way to heat a space. You went off on some tangent which had zero relevance to the topic.

    As I am sure I posted here I am environmentally aware but I don't believe all the noise coming from all different parties across Ireland and the World in terms of the proclaimed doom we are about to be hit with. The bit I was pulling you up about before was the obsession with the Green Party because in reality all of the political parties are at the same, you lose the value in your point by wedging in some comment abotu the Green Party.

    No heating at the moment is carbon neutral that Im aware of, not in Ireland anyway. Some are better for environment and they should be considered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not sure what that means, I made a comment on the video which is the usual noise to get a few clicks with nothing behind it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    the only thing the government is worried about is loss of revenue so smart meters will tax you when you charge your car, kerb weight will be taxed as ev is heavier.

    it's all about revenue.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Sound. Thanks. I hope we're not setting policy or taxation based on US road accident statistics. SUVs in Ireland are not equal to the monstrosities over there.

    There's a lot of haulage companies on HVO. And some agri users. I seen a video of a lad in the UK drove a combine from John o' Groats to Land's End in the summer to raise money for charity. Certa sponsored the fuel and it was all HVO. Seems like a no brainer to be promoting that, especially if it's a drop in replacement for diesel. Instant emission reduction* and no major cost. Carbon tax should be cheaper too on it I'd guess

    * assuming the input to make the HVO isn't palm oil or other such stuff shipped across the world



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I seen this before, the chance of you dying if hit by a SUV are a lot higher than if you are hit by a car. America has gone the SUV/Crossover route long before Europe which is following fast now and soon the average car wil die out. Like the Yaris is not in Crossover format

    HVO is been used in trucks mostly, you will see it stamped on the side of it. It is getting some tests in the UK for home heating but Ireland lagging behind. In Cork they have it up and running and I checked with my boiler company and my boiler will support HVO but nobody in area that converts it. You need to change the pipe coming to boiler etc. Plus when asking the supply companies they don't supply households and only companies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You jumped in on behalf of a poster I was having a discussion with on wood pellets who has been on here time after time telling us that carbon neutral renewable energy was the only energy source we should be using who posted he/she was using a wood pellet burner for heat. I was pointing out that wood pellets are not carbon neutral, a fact that you at least have now accept.

    I don`t have any particular obsession with the Green Party or there supporter here other than I find much of what they are favoring hypocritical as well as dangerous for the economic well-being of the country. I also find both very much biased against anything rural. If that offends your or anyone elses sensibilites then so be it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would have thought it was clear enough.

    You commented that throwing billions to the 3rd world has not done a lot in regards to alleviating the problem with food. My comment was that especially after the last few COP beanfeasts we are now on the merry-go-round doing the same for climate change, and that doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result was the definition of insanity. But perhaps you expect the result to be different this time ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306



    To truly understand kW vs. kWh, you also need to consider time. A kWh measures the energy an electrical device or load uses in kilowatts per hour. This in conjunction with the power delivered.For your information...

    I just wanted the 'per hour' in there as it is important..

    Again the h in kWh refers to hour. It is important because unlike say a ton of coal, a watt is simply a unit of energy just like a joule.

    You're seriously confused here.

    • "Kilowatts per hour" is meaningless. If it meant anything it would mean "kilowatts divided by hours".
    • A kWh is a kilowatt-hour, i.e. kilowatt multiplied by hour.
    • A watt is not a unit of energy. It's a unit of power. Power is energy divided by time.
    • A joule is a unit of energy. A watt (unit of power) is one joule per second (i.e. energy divided by time).
    • If power is energy divided by time, then power multiplied by time is energy. That's why the kWh is a unit of energy.
    image.png




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The constant references to the Green party would suggest you have a huge issue with the party, you rpoint would be a lot better made without the constant references to them is my point which still stands.

    I jumped in to provide my own personal experience.

    I also asked you to provide the study you reference as I was interested because I have a wood pellet stove and I couldn't find it. This as it turns out doesn't exist.

    Trying to fix the issue in the 3rd World with food has been going on how long? In reality the Irish government along with others have done the bare minimum in terms of reducing CO2, pushing public transport etc

    Not really a comparison is it? plus Ireland as a country provides millions every year to charities to help in the 3rd World. So it's not like we are not trying to help



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The speaker is a lecturer at UCD's Smurfit School of Business, and teaches finance at the Irish Management Institute and Chartered Accountants Ireland. Unless you think the video is an AI deep-fake, the whinge about the source is just an excuse not to engage.

    Like it or lump it we need to get better at looking after the environment. Ignoring it seems to be his advice, hunger in the 3rd World we can fix? no we can't becaues if we could the billions upon billions sent to them over the last years would have fixed it.

    Uh, it did fix it. It lifted a billion people out of extreme poverty between 1990 and 2010, five years ahead of schedule. There's still a lot more to do. What does littering the Irish landscape with windmills and solar panels contribute to it?

    It's true there has always been inefficiency and corruption in the dissemination of development aid. But you ain't seen nuthin' yet once Eamon Ryan gets his way. First we tax the bejesus out of the citizenry to pay for vastly less efficient forms of energy. Then we tax the bejesus out of them some more to pay reparations for our sins against the environment to other countries.

    Then the reparations money is tied to sustainability goals for those countries too, so that they get screwed like us with inefficient energy production. Meanwhile the opportunites for corruption in this madcap reparations scheme will be immense. The whole thing is shaping up to be an economic disaster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Bad idea to install wood pellet burner, there is no reliable source in Ireland for pellets, they need to be imported, and are usually sourced from companies using dubious methods to manufacture them, they cause more pollution than coal.

    Wood pellet stoves are being removed from homes every week in Ireland.You need to rethink your heating system unless you are going to tell us that you have your own private woods and can manufacture pellets.😂

    https://e360.yale.edu/features/wood_pellets_green_energy_or_new_source_of_co2_emissions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Gript like a lot of dodgy media sources will cut and edit videos to suit their own narrative. The video is a snippet I expect of a longer interview and has very little substance to it.

    In terms of World hunger as I pointed out Ireland provides a significant amount of money every year towards this already. We need to make sure we invest in Ireland as well. This includes trying to get a as close to self reliant power system and public transport system to meet the requirements of a growing population.

    In terms of the question what does windmills and solar panels provide, I guess you already know the answer to this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The wood pellet system to heat homes are been removed. Mostly because you need a garage sized environment to house the hopper and then if the pellet get damp they are a mess. Plus the majority of companies have moved to A2W etc and you can't get maintenance on them. A lot got installed circa 20 years ago around the time of A2W so they are due to be replaced and trying to find anyone to replace that isn't A2W is a nightmare. \

    My brother was building a house circa 20 years ago when Wood Pellets and A2W etc was just coming on market. He was undecided but in the end trying to store the hopper meant he went A2W. His A2W was replaced last year as it was end of it's lifecycle so that's why you would see similar around now with the wood pellet heating systems and in most situations would be changed to A2W. Not even sure what the grant is like on a Wood pellet heating system anymore,.

    The room heaters have a huge market with my own coming from Stanley and excellent support from them with service etc available.

    Just one example below of an Irish company which provides pellets. Plenty of others around as well. Balcas is one of the big supplier who are based in North and I have bought from them a number of times.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Gript like a lot of dodgy media sources will cut and edit videos to suit their own narrative. The video is a snippet I expect of a longer interview and has very little substance to it.

    You could, of course, spend five seconds Googling to see if Lucey's "politics of narcissism" comments in the video match his actual views expressed elsewhere. You would find this on his own blog from last Sunday, also published in the Sunday Times:


    We need to make sure we invest in Ireland as well. This includes trying to get a as close to self reliant power system and public transport system to meet the requirements of a growing population.

    Only people in thrall to the Green cult could possibly believe that Eamon Ryan's barmy "Energy Security Report" is about energy security. It is an ideologically preconditioned response that is going to screw the country.

    In terms of the question what does windmills and solar panels provide, I guess you already know the answer to this.

    I sure do, but I doubt it's the same answer as yours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Quick read of it makes me even less impressed. Apart from spending a lot of time getting references together, which of course they love in uni, the whole point of the blog is to have a pop at Eamonn Ryan. I guess Ryan didn't hire him as an advisor reading between the lines.

    Also not a single answer to have to solve the problem, just some noise, a few digs at people and I guess a share holder in the now infamous Barryroe company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You do realise dont you`what that the title of this thread is ?

    I have told you how I view the Green Party and their supporters on issues I find hypocritical and dangerous to the economic with both imo having a major bias when it comes to anything rural.I have also post here on how I see the E.U. on green issues. All very much in keeping with the title of this thread as far as I`m concerned. If you or other here have a problem with that I could not care less if I tried.

    I still have no idea what you are saying when it comes to the 3rd world. From an earlier comment you appear to believe that the billions sent there for variou programmes food related were a waste, but now it would appear that you believe sending further billions for climate change programmes would have a different outcome but no matter.

    On the subject though I think @ps200306 made some very good points.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    From the independent.ie article linked:

    With the population growing and economy expanding, the reductions in fossil fuel use and associated emissions achieved in these areas will not make up for the increases driven by higher energy demand.

    [...]

    “Increased spending must be matched with stronger regulation, requiring the heaviest emitters to reduce emissions, or to scale back operations until such time as they can comply. We need to consider increased carbon taxes on high-polluting luxury items like SUVs. Could we consider some limits on air travel until decarbonisation actions take effect?”

    The most green-leaning people I know are all for expanding the population well beyond natural increases by encouraging inward migration - which in turn increases energy demand. I suspect that point will be skipped over by alot of the green-leaning people on here too.

    Of the second passage, only one of those two things will happen - it won't be the limits on air travel. Alot of the most green-leaning people you find adore their multiple short-stay city breaks all across Europe. A trip around social media accounts will verify this for you time and time again. I guess the plebs will have to endure further carbon taxes, while nothing else will change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    "Green" policies is not the Green Party. Every political party has green policies. In all probability the Green party will not be part of the next government and the current strategy won't change. You do realise this?

    The other poster has made no points, just pointed to someone else's and seems to think everyone should accept them because the guy works in UCD.



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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In all probability the Green party will not be part of the next government and the current strategy won't change. You do realise this?

    This is what a lot are pinning their hopes on, a major reversal. Won't happen, even SF finally came out saying we need to reduce emissions ASAP and have to move faster.

    Took them long enough, but it was straight from the horses mouth, MLD, at the recent Aes Fheis in Athlone

    Something else that is missed by those hoping for a SF reversal, the party, 100% of their TD's, voted for all climate legislation that has been proposed.

    Besides, the courts would block anything that would be regressive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭creedp


    Nail on the head, carbon taxes are a brilliant swizz allowing increases in taxation on the back of saving rhe planet. I mean you'd have to be morally bankrupt not to support them and to clearly demonstrate your green credentials actively cheer lead for further extortionate increases



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Besides, the courts would block anything that would be regressive

    I find this statement bemusing. The courts are there to implement the law of the land. The legislators (voted in by the public) are the ones who write the law, the courts have to follow suit when ruling.

    Unless you are hoping some sort of international/UN climate court is established and headed up by Greta. You probably loved last night's fantasy sci-fi on RTE 1 with Mark Little last night, right? Link: Ireland 2050: Tomorrow Tonight - RTÉ Player (rte.ie) 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The Irish Green party are not short on policies that I believe have been hypocratical, dangerous for the economy and biased against rural communities and are a government tail of a dog party polling within the margin of error at half the level they recieved in the last GE. So it certainly does not look as if there is any great support for their policies.

    They have used their tail of the dog position to push those policies, even going as far as to threaten to collapse the government if they didn`t get their way. Will any of that change if the Greens are not part of the next government, who knows, but I would see much more liklihood of it without them being there.

    @ps200306 points I refered to were in relation to money to the 3rd world



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    SF probably srill have quite a few warriors in their ranks, but I cannot see many of them being green warriors.

    SF have shown they are masters at jumping on and off hobby horses and they are the greatest threat to some of those Green T.D. who they believe are only there because SF did run enough candidates last GE. If SF do make it into government they have made a lot of very expensive promises that will come a long way ahead of green spend. With the economy expected to tighten, even further ahead.

    As to the courts, @InAtFullBack has pointed out the flaw in that thinking. Same as many others have done in the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So you ignored the content of the post and went off on another rant about the Green party. Kinda says it all. Again to confirm the thread title is "Green Policies" and not The Green Party.

    As I said I have no time for Green party and never voted for the, but no idea why you think any minor partner in government have a huge swing over policies. It's actually kinda funny at the moment the lack of awareness of some of the Irish population when it comes to how the government actually works.

    You would think at this stage with the rotting carcasses of every minor partner in previous government that the penny might drop but seemingly not.

    In terms of 3rd World money, Ireland gives a significant amount of money every year to charities etc for the 3rd World. You seem to be unaware of this, have a look below:

    https://www.irishaid.ie/what-we-do/how-our-aid-works/where-the-money-goes/

    Bingo. The fun will be when SF do get into government and stay along the exact same trajectory who will the most vocal blame then? or what more commonly happens is they suddenly switch and fully support the policies they spent years complaining about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Exactly, if all these carbon taxes were anything but another revenue raising scam, we'd be in an ice-age now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,745 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Just back from ordering my new SUV for mid-2024 delivery.

    I've always resisted one because of the cost to run, but even though this one has 470 horsepower and can do 0-100 in 4.6 seconds and weighs 2.4 tonnes, because its petrol electric V6 hybrid, its only €120 quid p.a. to motor tax!

    Thanks Eamon Ryan 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Would you have any data to back up the statement about Green TD who got in because of the SF? I seen analysis a long time ago which didn't say that at all and I think maybe one TD got transfers from SF. Another one of those online myths been pushed by a certain group.

    So if you think SF are going to change the policies then please elaborate on what policies SF will remove and what they will replace them with?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack




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