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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Yep, we can no longer have nuance, subtlety, gradations, context.

    Far easier deal in absolutes....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme



    I haven't seen anyone label France as chokers for losing to South Africa. They were a team, like Ireland, who had won their group and were going into a quarter final as favourites. The big difference between France and Ireland is in how both teams performed in relation to their maximum potential. France were generally excellent and came out with all guns blazing. Ireland were the complete opposite.


    So, there are plenty of ways to define losing performances. But really, despite lots of people wishing otherwise, the word term 'choker' or 'bottler' is a very accurate way to describe the term 'a team losing while perform well capable their best due to nerves.'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Pollard has some real nightmares and why a lot of Bok fans wanted options for this World Cup. I remember this game and some really terrible kicks

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-africa-rugby-team-ripped-21618020



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The big difference is in how you want to view the situations. France underperformed against SA and never should have lost that match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Yep, but was still substantially the best kicking option for SA. Can't find the exact article RE: his history, but this was for 2022 to July of this year. With the way the RWC went, you'd imagine they've diverged even further since.




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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Neil Jenkins was probably the most lethal place-kicker I've ever seen. I've seen 87% listed as his career kicking accuracy and he slotted 44 kicks in a row at club level



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Im a bit of a neutral between the provinces. I support them all and when they play each other I tend to support he underdog or the team that's shooting the lights out. For me Ulster have underperformed spectacularly for many years. They have many decent and some fantastic players and they always have a couple of elite niqs on the books. Im not sure if its coaching or the provincial structure there but Ulster's problems are not in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Why in the name of fcuk are you still droning on about this crap? Give it a feckin' holiday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭OldRio


    I doff my cap in respect to the above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,328 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Putting someone on ignore is pointless when everyone is quoting him.

    He's clearly swimming against the tide, in everything he has ever written here.

    Don't waste your time.

    Post edited by Brief_Lives on


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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    It's still affecting me. For example, yesterday I had to take an Ireland jersey off my daughter, it's a choking hazard.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,559 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Threadbanned for 2 weeks, do not post in this thread again until 22/11.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Ireland didn't choke v New Zealand at the World cup. They just gave themselves a lot to do after 13 minutes in the match and couldn't catch Nz. Selection decisions, managing the cards and subs could have and should have been made differently but we were on their line right at the end of the game and had gotten over the line a few minutes eallrlier only to be held up. That is not choking..

    For me they did choke v NZ back in 2013.

    19 - 0 after 17 minutes. Sexton missed a conversion. Still 22 - 7 up after 33 minutes. Failed to score again.

    Sexton missed a penalty to seal victory after 74 minutes and get the lead back out to 8 points.

    30 seconds to go then Owens gives a mad peno v Jack mcgrath.

    2 minutes later Crotty sneaks over on the corner.. still hurts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭The Parish King


    Following on from the first few weeks of URC with the internationals away, who do we see as the highest potential young players who can make the international squad over the next couple of years, and ultimately become mainstays?

    From a Leinster perspective I think the most likely candidates are James Culhane, Jack Boyle, Sam Prendergast, Jamie Osbourne and Tommy O’Brien.

    For Munster I think there is Tom Aherne, Edwin Edogbo, Brian Gleeson and Ruadhan Quinn.

    I haven’t seen much of Connacht or Ulster so far this season, but have heard good reports on Cathal Forde for Connacht, as well as Harry Sheridan and David McCann for Ulster.

    I haven’t included the more established young players (e.g. Harry Byrne, Scott Penny, Calvin Nash etc.), who I expect are likely to pick up some caps along the way but may struggle to ultimately become first choice international players.

    Obviously not all of these guys will go on to become starters (or internationals at all!), but considering this was the first World Cup for 19 out of our 2023 squad, there is likely to be a number of younger guys coming in to fill the void left by the old guard this time around - so hopefully some of them can live up to the hype and fulfil their potential!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,611 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    ah come on, i get the world cup is still a sore topic

    but are we really thread banning folk for a joke?

    There's been way worse Said about other teams that is let fly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭ersatz


    If it was humorous you might have a point, but endlessly repeating joyless provocations is akin to throwing dirty nappies out the car window. Let's move on.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,377 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    if you think the poster was banned for a joke, you havent been following the thread.

    i suggest you go back and read the last 50 or so pages



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Yeah. The ban wasn't for the last post. They've ruined the thread to be honest.

    But their last post was quite funny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    For me, I'd say Forde has a great chance. He seems to have it all and if he continues this form, should be in training camps before too long.

    As far as 2nd rows go, Ahern looks to be highly rated. Emerging Ireland tour last year.

    An under thae radar pick, Russell at Leinster. Still early in his development of course and he needs to force his way into the 2st xx111. From what I've seen of him, he's got serious potential.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Of guys who haven’t been mentioned, kilgallon (spelling?) for connacht looks pretty good. I really like aungier as well.

    Kendellan is an interesting one to me. I think he has the athleticism and skillset to grow into a really good player.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I don't know that any young Ulster lads will break into the squad anytime soon. If McCann performs well in Europe then he may well get there eventually, but he's probably a season away. Harry Sheridan, along with Jude Postlethwaite, might interest the selectors down the line, but not anytime soon.

    For now it will be the likes of Tom Stewart, Jacob Stockdale, James Hume and Rob Baloucoune who still have the best chance of getting into the squad IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    The left wing/left footed alternative to James Lowe / Stockdale / JOB will be an interesting position to see develop.

    Doubt James Lowe contract will be renewed after 2025. Stockdale looks devoid of confidence and is simply not good enough anymore.

    11.Hansen 14.Baloucoune is my guess as the front runners for 2027 as it stands.


    Any U20 left footed wingers on the horizon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Not sure about left footed wings, but Russell and T.O.B from Leinster are viable options. Shane Daly and Nash are both very good players.

    It's a shame that Larmour hasn't improved. If anything, he's stood still if he hasn't regressed. I find it hard to believe that after all this time the same problems exist for him. What exactly are the coaching team doing that these problems can't be fixed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    You definitely haven't watched Stockdale this season. If Stockdale can carry on his form from the first two games he's played (3 tries and generally very good all round) he will be right back into contention. Obviously he needs a run of good performances, particularly in the Inter Pros and Europe.

    Not sure about left footed U20s wingers from the last year or two. The back three were pretty exciting runners last year weren't they? Can't remember their names (McErlean was one maybe?)

    I'd be interested in Calvin Nash amd Tommy O'Brien to see how they go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    As mad as it sounds, in the near future we could be looking at Brian Gleeson at 8, Ruadhán Quinn at 7, and Beirne or Coombes fighting it out for 6. Gleeson is already the same size as Coombes but a bit more mobile and room to fill out more, Ruadhan just turned 20 in October, and Gleeson will turn 20 in February.

    O'Connell (will turn 20 in May), Ahern (will turn 24 in Feb) and Edogbo (will turn 21 next month) fighting out for lock positions. Plus Kleyn if still around.

    And that's not even considering the other talented guys.

    Kendellen may find himself like Scott Penny, a very good all-round player, but stuck behind bigger and better athletes. Hodnett is quicker than the others, but I could see Ruadhán passing him out this season, his size and speed are phenomenal and seems to be a good player also. If they are good enough they are old enough. One thing Kendellen offers is good cover across the back row, he is capable of being a fantastic back row sub, and could perhaps cover centre too if going for a 6-2 split.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Interesting, I had Hodnett down as someone who was likely to make the extended Ireland Six Nations squad. Quinn still has a year to go at U20s doesn't he?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I believe Quinn had his final year this year as he turned 20 in 2023, I think U20 is if you turn 20 in the calendar year.

    Hodnett is a fantastic player, but that's why I think it's mad, he will be under a lot of pressure to nail down the 7 jersey with Quinn's ability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭The Parish King


    I think Gleeson is the biggest prospect we’ve had in the forwards since the 2016 u20 team with James Ryan and Andrew Porter.

    It’s rare for Irish forwards to be so physically imposing, and all the more impressive that he was a year young as well. Great to see him getting exposure for Munster already too, as one poster mentioned - if you’re good enough, you’re old enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 367 ✭✭letsbefair


    They will need to break into the first xv at province level and perform in big games. The standard to get into the Ireland back row is extremely high. We mainly need a back up to Andrew Porter and an out half to replace Johnny proving themselves consistently at the top levels and staying injury free.



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  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We've seen in the past that the pathway is different for proper elite talents than it is for anyone a rung below. We seem reluctant to give out gametime to players who might be on a similar level to the incumbents, but are quick enough to bring through the really top talents. Could see this happening with Gleeson



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