2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

FrancieBrady · 21-10-2023 10:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269568#Comment_121269568

SA didn’t handle their vulnerability well.

Always likely England might use that. I said it earlier in thread.

SA did enough to win and didn’t panic.

Ultimately England played their currently classic game with some passion but it came up short.

SA will offer NZ a different challenge in my opinion, the lacuna will be gone and we may see the team that played France again.

Glad it’s them in the final tbh but understand English disappointment

LuckyLloyd · 21-10-2023 10:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269601#Comment_121269601

I didn’t think they were any good in 2007 or 2019 either, tbh. Just **** sickened they have been able to get more joy on this stage even when we’ve generally had their number the last two decades every spring. That’s all.

fullstop · 21-10-2023 10:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269591#Comment_121269591

You’ve lost me now. Ballet? What the **** are you on about?

captbarnacles · 21-10-2023 10:56PM

SA about as fun to watch as England. Neither team can create much. SA feed off mistakes but England don't ever try and play from their own half so that blunts that strategy. SA win by getting scrum penalties in the last 15 minutes. Dreadful but winning rugby.

Dave_The_Sheep · 21-10-2023 11:00PM

I was hoping England would win tonight. I will pretty much (sans someone like Jones being in charge maybe) always support England against one of the big three SH teams and against this particular South African side, I don't have to think ~~twice~~ once. It's just a rugby thing that was ingrained. I'm not going to judge anyone for not agreeing.

There's been a few references to West Brits in the last few pages. Does me wanting England to win make me a West Brit?

(I even live in the Pale and I'm a Leinster STH if that tips the scales)

Because if you think it does, that's a bit of a joke.

Pete_Cavan · 21-10-2023 11:02PM

I think SA were drained after their quarter final last week, that was a big leveler today. It was a mistake going with the same starting 15, doubly so if they start them all again next weekend.

NZ will be much fresher and know how to win these big games, they'll be comfortable in the end next weekend.

FrancieBrady · 21-10-2023 11:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269625#Comment_121269625

You have to wait 4 years too.

I’m going to do it by being positive and not full of bile and bitterness.

You are going to whinge about fait accompli’s and what we shoulda done couldn’t do.

Maybe rugby is not for you.

I suggested an alternative- ballet? Sit back, no winners or losers and nice legs whether you are into men or women. Much less taxing on you.

FrancieBrady · 21-10-2023 11:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269631#Comment_121269631

Got a rare visit into the English 22 and scored the 7 points.

Didn’t think they’d lose after that. Huge effort from Eng but a very one dimensional team who caught an out sorts SA and looked good for 75 minutes.

typhoony · 21-10-2023 11:12PM

As much as I dislike the English style of play I was hoping they would win for the same reason that I wanted Wales and Scotland to lose. The World Cup vote remember England actually voted for Ireland to host it.

Pete_Cavan · 21-10-2023 11:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269666#Comment_121269666

That is the worst reason for supporting England! Our bid for this WC was **** and vastly inferior to France's. We can't hold not voting for us against other nations, they are entitled to vote for the bid which they perceive to be the best.

fullstop · 21-10-2023 11:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269644#Comment_121269644

You seem super salty. “Bile and bitterness” 😂 get up the yard will you ffs. I’ll do what I do every other year and support Ireland, but I won’t get into the hype of us being the best in the world until it’s done when it matters, in a WC.

Eoinbmw · 21-10-2023 11:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269666#Comment_121269666

When it comes to 6 nations I reserve my most "hatred" (it's not real hatred just sporting hatred which is not so deep) for the good old yellow bellied Scot's!

Wales which are essentially a county of England dont seem to get my back up quite so much lol!

Of course it's easy and pretty natural to "hate" on the English!

FrancieBrady · 21-10-2023 11:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269677#Comment_121269677

I don’t do hype. One game at a time. And one team at a time.

I don’t attribute the failings of past teams to the present ones.

Every game/tournament/ game and challenge is different and circumstances are.

The bitter stink raised by those who thought we had some sort of right to win, that the players made a balls off is nauseating.

They are flat out trying to suggest there was a bottle by players who won 17 games on the trot, some of them scintillating.

Take your bitterness elsewhere. It’s useless.

fullstop · 21-10-2023 11:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269698#Comment_121269698

Doing a lot of pontificating about bitterness tonight for a man who’s definitely not bitter, Francie 🥱

FrancieBrady · 21-10-2023 11:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269707#Comment_121269707

Sick reading you and others. Won’t deny that.

Are you not able to accept a loss, without the need ti demean? Why would you follow a team if you can’t?

fullstop · 22-10-2023 12:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269718#Comment_121269718

There’s an ignore button, Francis. If a different perspective upsets you that much, I’d suggest using it. I’m as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

I’m not trying to demean anyone, but I won’t get caught up in the hype when we’ve seen the same thing happen again and again.

I could ask, by the same token, why you’re trying to demean England, when they were a couple of points from another final having shown no form for about 2 years.

Greengrass53 · 22-10-2023 12:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269666#Comment_121269666

What a ridiculous notion. We lost the bid because it was rubbish. France have put on a wonderful event, can you imagine us coming anywhere near them. Get real and grow up.

Tommybojangles · 22-10-2023 12:26AM

I hate England as much as the next man, probably more, but I think itish people saying there's nothing we could learn from them is a bit rich.

Whatever about their style of play, lack of ambition, etc, they almost invariably get every last drop of potential from themselves in world cups and relish the big moments. Making the 07 and 19 finals ffs with the teams they had. Bringing up draws is all well and good, but we had 'favourable' draws in 11 and 15 don't forget and didn't manage to take advantage.

Delighted they lost and I'd back us to beat them every day of the weak but if you don't think we could learn something from them you're kidding yourself.

Clegg · 22-10-2023 12:28AM

Come to really dislike Matt Williams's opinions of the game. South Africa's comeback through their set piece was fascinating yet all he talked about was how it's ruining the game.

I think he's just fundamentally wrong about it too. The scrum is an area where fewer penalties are awarded these days, so seeing a team get such dominance just adds an extra layer of drama to the game.

Cill94 · 22-10-2023 12:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269568#Comment_121269568

Because England have on average been better than us at peaking for the World Cup, and they go into it genuinely expecting to win.

The Golden Miller · 22-10-2023 01:58AM

I did post a message that Ireland wouldn't hack it when push comes to shove. There's no shame in that, the southern hemisphere teams are just a different beast when it matters, will generally just about do what they need to do.

New Zealand are the weakest of the Tri Nations in that sense though, the Boks and Wallabies loved playing them when it really mattered, and would generally beat them in World Cups. The form was 2 World Cups for the Boks and Wallabies against 1 for the All Blacks, who hadn't won since 85, in a Mickey Mouse version of the tournament.

The All Blacks only really caught up in World Cups the last decade, as the Wallabies fell off a cliff which is only getting worse, and South Africa weren't at the races.

Also of note, the Boks had a winning hth against the All Blacks up to apartheid, but internal josling in society in general since sent them back, only in the last 6 or 7 years they're finding general consistency.

People think New Zealand are rugby's traditional superpower, it's not, it's the Boks. When it matters most, they'll always do a job on the All Blacks, put your life savings on them turning the All Blacks over.

New Zealand can win all the Tri Nations and Rugby Championships they want, since 95, the Boks and Wallabies couldn't care less about it, it was always about peaking for the World Cup. The Wallabies are gone, but up until the country lost general interest were the best of the 3, but grinding these games out is what the Boks do. They're going to run over and batter the All Black's.

The All Blacks have always feared Australia and South Africa in a way neither both feared the All Blacks. It's why they've always placed so much emphasis on beating both when both never really cared, insecurity complex.

But when it matters most in World Cups, the Wallabies in the past, and the Boks now, are a different animal, and All Blacks have a terrible record against both. The Boks are going to steam roll them!

Enzokk · 22-10-2023 03:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269811#Comment_121269811

There is way too much emphasis on the world cup and what it says about you as a team. Take 2004-2011, New Zealand wins 85% of their matches in that span and South Africa 65%, but looking at the world cups you would have to say they were equal in that time. But New Zealand wins 12 of the 20 matches between the 2 teams in that time. South Africa win the 2007 world cup by beating England in the group, Fiji in the QF, Argentina (before Rugby Championship and Super Rugby) in the SF and England again in the final. That is England that lost by 30 to Ireland earlier in the year. That was the Wayne Barnes forward pass that he missed in the QF against France for New Zealand. The year before South Africa lost 49-0 to Australia as well. They were not close to being the best team in the world, but the world cup tells you differently.

I also don't understand how you can say Australia and South Africa has New Zealand good record* against New Zealand at World Cups. I think you are remembering the SF loss to Australia in 1991 and 2003 and the final loss to South Africa in 1995 to come to that conclusion. Talk about looking at the past to predict future events, nothing that happened in 1995 or 1991 will have any impact on matches now.

*I know you didn't sayi they have a good record, but you said New Zealand has a terrible record against those 2, the opposite of terrible is good.

eagle eye · 22-10-2023 03:44AM

I said all week that being much fresher, as England were, is a big leveller. I still fancied South Africa to win it by about six or seven but it was very close.

Pollard to me looked a much better fit than Libbok.

I'm not criticising Libbok, just the way the game was played made Pollard the better option.

Jacovs · 22-10-2023 04:46AM

Said it after the game last night, will say it again now;

****

Me.

lawrencesummers · 22-10-2023 05:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269811#Comment_121269811

I wouldnt be so sure.

SA have been rattled by that win over England. Libbok is a huge call he shouldnt start because he was terrible against england in every aspect and cant be trusted off the bench. The rest of the side look very tired.

Rassie will have to rotate for next week.

If SA perform like that again NZ will score trys, and they will go back to the template they used in july to best SA.

OldRio · 22-10-2023 07:28AM

One of my takes from this WC is that teams find it difficult to put in good performances back to back in high intensity games. Which in turn makes squad rotation and substitutes more and more important.

Both finalist came from the same side of the draw. Both have been beaten. England absolutely threw a golden opportunity away. The stars aligned for them this WC and they blew it.

I'd put NZ as favourites because of the ease of their semi final.

LuckyLloyd · 22-10-2023 07:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269900#Comment_121269900

In that regard, Rassie hooking his 10 after 30 minutes and going to the bench very early in the 2nd half was fantastic coaching. SA were off, and he didn’t wait too long to bring on fresher replacements and change things. He’s such an incredible coach.

TheRona · 22-10-2023 07:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269909#Comment_121269909

It worked out for them in the end, more through mistakes from England than anything. If he was such an incredible coach, he would have seen exactly how England were going to play, and select for it. It's almost he was taken by surprise by the way England were playing. Bizarre.