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2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    I was hoping England would win tonight. I will pretty much (sans someone like Jones being in charge maybe) always support England against one of the big three SH teams and against this particular South African side, I don't have to think twice once. It's just a rugby thing that was ingrained. I'm not going to judge anyone for not agreeing.

    There's been a few references to West Brits in the last few pages. Does me wanting England to win make me a West Brit?

    (I even live in the Pale and I'm a Leinster STH if that tips the scales)

    Because if you think it does, that's a bit of a joke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,801 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I think SA were drained after their quarter final last week, that was a big leveler today. It was a mistake going with the same starting 15, doubly so if they start them all again next weekend.

    NZ will be much fresher and know how to win these big games, they'll be comfortable in the end next weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67,659 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You have to wait 4 years too.

    I’m going to do it by being positive and not full of bile and bitterness.

    You are going to whinge about fait accompli’s and what we shoulda done couldn’t do.

    Maybe rugby is not for you.

    I suggested an alternative- ballet? Sit back, no winners or losers and nice legs whether you are into men or women. Much less taxing on you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67,659 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Got a rare visit into the English 22 and scored the 7 points.

    Didn’t think they’d lose after that. Huge effort from Eng but a very one dimensional team who caught an out sorts SA and looked good for 75 minutes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭typhoony


    As much as I dislike the English style of play I was hoping they would win for the same reason that I wanted Wales and Scotland to lose. The World Cup vote remember England actually voted for Ireland to host it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,801 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That is the worst reason for supporting England! Our bid for this WC was **** and vastly inferior to France's. We can't hold not voting for us against other nations, they are entitled to vote for the bid which they perceive to be the best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    You seem super salty. “Bile and bitterness” 😂 get up the yard will you ffs. I’ll do what I do every other year and support Ireland, but I won’t get into the hype of us being the best in the world until it’s done when it matters, in a WC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    When it comes to 6 nations I reserve my most "hatred" (it's not real hatred just sporting hatred which is not so deep) for the good old yellow bellied Scot's!

    Wales which are essentially a county of England dont seem to get my back up quite so much lol!

    Of course it's easy and pretty natural to "hate" on the English!



  • Registered Users Posts: 67,659 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don’t do hype. One game at a time. And one team at a time.

    I don’t attribute the failings of past teams to the present ones.

    Every game/tournament/ game and challenge is different and circumstances are.

    The bitter stink raised by those who thought we had some sort of right to win, that the players made a balls off is nauseating.

    They are flat out trying to suggest there was a bottle by players who won 17 games on the trot, some of them scintillating.

    Take your bitterness elsewhere. It’s useless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Doing a lot of pontificating about bitterness tonight for a man who’s definitely not bitter, Francie 🥱



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  • Registered Users Posts: 67,659 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sick reading you and others. Won’t deny that.

    Are you not able to accept a loss, without the need ti demean? Why would you follow a team if you can’t?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,347 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    There’s an ignore button, Francis. If a different perspective upsets you that much, I’d suggest using it. I’m as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

    I’m not trying to demean anyone, but I won’t get caught up in the hype when we’ve seen the same thing happen again and again.

    I could ask, by the same token, why you’re trying to demean England, when they were a couple of points from another final having shown no form for about 2 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭Greengrass53


    What a ridiculous notion. We lost the bid because it was rubbish. France have put on a wonderful event, can you imagine us coming anywhere near them. Get real and grow up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭Tommybojangles


    I hate England as much as the next man, probably more, but I think itish people saying there's nothing we could learn from them is a bit rich.

    Whatever about their style of play, lack of ambition, etc, they almost invariably get every last drop of potential from themselves in world cups and relish the big moments. Making the 07 and 19 finals ffs with the teams they had. Bringing up draws is all well and good, but we had 'favourable' draws in 11 and 15 don't forget and didn't manage to take advantage.

    Delighted they lost and I'd back us to beat them every day of the weak but if you don't think we could learn something from them you're kidding yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Come to really dislike Matt Williams's opinions of the game. South Africa's comeback through their set piece was fascinating yet all he talked about was how it's ruining the game.

    I think he's just fundamentally wrong about it too. The scrum is an area where fewer penalties are awarded these days, so seeing a team get such dominance just adds an extra layer of drama to the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Because England have on average been better than us at peaking for the World Cup, and they go into it genuinely expecting to win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    I did post a message that Ireland wouldn't hack it when push comes to shove. There's no shame in that, the southern hemisphere teams are just a different beast when it matters, will generally just about do what they need to do.

    New Zealand are the weakest of the Tri Nations in that sense though, the Boks and Wallabies loved playing them when it really mattered, and would generally beat them in World Cups. The form was 2 World Cups for the Boks and Wallabies against 1 for the All Blacks, who hadn't won since 85, in a Mickey Mouse version of the tournament.

    The All Blacks only really caught up in World Cups the last decade, as the Wallabies fell off a cliff which is only getting worse, and South Africa weren't at the races.

    Also of note, the Boks had a winning hth against the All Blacks up to apartheid, but internal josling in society in general since sent them back, only in the last 6 or 7 years they're finding general consistency.

    People think New Zealand are rugby's traditional superpower, it's not, it's the Boks. When it matters most, they'll always do a job on the All Blacks, put your life savings on them turning the All Blacks over.

    New Zealand can win all the Tri Nations and Rugby Championships they want, since 95, the Boks and Wallabies couldn't care less about it, it was always about peaking for the World Cup. The Wallabies are gone, but up until the country lost general interest were the best of the 3, but grinding these games out is what the Boks do. They're going to run over and batter the All Black's.

    The All Blacks have always feared Australia and South Africa in a way neither both feared the All Blacks. It's why they've always placed so much emphasis on beating both when both never really cared, insecurity complex.

    But when it matters most in World Cups, the Wallabies in the past, and the Boks now, are a different animal, and All Blacks have a terrible record against both. The Boks are going to steam roll them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Enzokk



    There is way too much emphasis on the world cup and what it says about you as a team. Take 2004-2011, New Zealand wins 85% of their matches in that span and South Africa 65%, but looking at the world cups you would have to say they were equal in that time. But New Zealand wins 12 of the 20 matches between the 2 teams in that time. South Africa win the 2007 world cup by beating England in the group, Fiji in the QF, Argentina (before Rugby Championship and Super Rugby) in the SF and England again in the final. That is England that lost by 30 to Ireland earlier in the year. That was the Wayne Barnes forward pass that he missed in the QF against France for New Zealand. The year before South Africa lost 49-0 to Australia as well. They were not close to being the best team in the world, but the world cup tells you differently.


    I also don't understand how you can say Australia and South Africa has New Zealand good record* against New Zealand at World Cups. I think you are remembering the SF loss to Australia in 1991 and 2003 and the final loss to South Africa in 1995 to come to that conclusion. Talk about looking at the past to predict future events, nothing that happened in 1995 or 1991 will have any impact on matches now.


    *I know you didn't sayi they have a good record, but you said New Zealand has a terrible record against those 2, the opposite of terrible is good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,896 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I said all week that being much fresher, as England were, is a big leveller. I still fancied South Africa to win it by about six or seven but it was very close.

    Pollard to me looked a much better fit than Libbok.

    I'm not criticising Libbok, just the way the game was played made Pollard the better option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Said it after the game last night, will say it again now;

    Fuck



    Me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I wouldnt be so sure.

    SA have been rattled by that win over England. Libbok is a huge call he shouldnt start because he was terrible against england in every aspect and cant be trusted off the bench. The rest of the side look very tired.

    Rassie will have to rotate for next week.

    If SA perform like that again NZ will score trys, and they will go back to the template they used in july to best SA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭OldRio


    One of my takes from this WC is that teams find it difficult to put in good performances back to back in high intensity games. Which in turn makes squad rotation and substitutes more and more important.

    Both finalist came from the same side of the draw. Both have been beaten. England absolutely threw a golden opportunity away. The stars aligned for them this WC and they blew it.

    I'd put NZ as favourites because of the ease of their semi final.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36,243 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    In that regard, Rassie hooking his 10 after 30 minutes and going to the bench very early in the 2nd half was fantastic coaching. SA were off, and he didn’t wait too long to bring on fresher replacements and change things. He’s such an incredible coach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭TheRona


    It worked out for them in the end, more through mistakes from England than anything. If he was such an incredible coach, he would have seen exactly how England were going to play, and select for it. It's almost he was taken by surprise by the way England were playing. Bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,592 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Absolutely ruthless from Rassie.

    I think that’s what Ireland were/are lacking.

    A few player’s last week that were out on their feet & stayed on the pitch.

    The Springboks have the stones to make those calls.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭McFly85


    He probably knew how they were going to play, but not how well they were going to play. England and the conditions made it a kicking game so made the call early to switch. Ruthless but the correct call.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Robertson will have some kind of job. Taking over from the 'worst coach NZ have ever had' who won the 'most competitive world cup in history'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭Seadin


    Typical Irish response. Remember in 1972 Ireland were on for a Grand Slam and they didn't get it because Wales and Scotland refused to come to Dublin because of the troubles. Wales have been a horrible team to us look at it when we were going for the 2009 Slam they did everything in their power to make sure Ireland couldn't make History. A horrible team that I always enjoy seeing getting beat. Scotland are no better and showee their colours in this WC. They deserve a few more wooden spoons so that we can all beat them with.


    The one thing England ever did wrong was in 2003 when they were going for the Slam and Johnston decided to line out in the wrong side but this was actually brilliant as it gave England the mental edge over Ireland and Ireland reacted. If Ireland were mentally strong back then they should have just lined up on the other side and play them at their own game. Ireland too focused on this and got hammered then in the actual game. England had failed on few attempts to win the GS but this was a genius strategy to get over the line. Ireland never had this close to the edge mentality when it really mattered in games. That's the truth and the truth hurts.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I think there should be big questions asked of Rassie. They just about squeaked over the line so he’ll avoid it, but that was definitely not a masterclass.

    Why repeatedly kick high to Steward? He’s world class at that single aspect of the game. It gave England an easy in to the game. If you want to play a tactical kicking game, why not start Pollard? Why not target Daly? Why not alter your starting 15 6 days after that incredibly high intensity game with France?

    For a man who was happy to throw out the line that certain teams had clocked up too many minutes, he made the exact same error and was lucky to get away with it. On another note, how much does Mbonambi have left in the tank? Reckon next week could be a game too far for him.

    I can’t see beyond a NZ win next week unless he changes up his team and gets some fresh legs and minds out there. Will Libbock make the 23? You wonder how his confidence is after that. Expect Pollard will start at 10. Might see LeRoux come in at 15, Wilhemse to the bench covering 10 with someone like Am or Moodie getting the 23 shirt.



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