General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

I think there's a few in here who are following this playbook 😂

Loved that one myself.

Even if they don't release it to the public, they really have to release it to the involved parties - otherwise the lack of transparency removes any credibility. The precedent should always be transparency.

I thought Webb was going to appear on Monday Night Football. Probably need to wait for his monthly show with Michael Owen

The obvious difference between this and all those other errors that everyone - including liverpool - have suffered in the past, is that in this case the officials knew it was wrong immediately, and didn't rectify it. That's new. It wasn't someone making a subjectively bad call, it was a mess up in communication that they could have immediately fixed, but chose not to. I don't think there's corruption, but it is a pretty unprecedented level of incompetence and bad judgement.

I don't see the point in getting so upset that fans are still talking/complaining about it 48 hours later, especially when it's an ongoing story with updates coming out every few hours (the most recent being that the PGMOL are split on whether or not they should release the audio).

IMO the difference is more than that. Subjective errors will always happen. There will always be awful calls we don't agree with. But systems and process failures on this level should not be able to occur at this stage. It wasn't a bad decision on the football, it wasn't a mistake in subjective reasoning - the officials looked at it, saw that the goal was indeed perfectly fine, and then knowingly allowed the game to continue with the wrong scoreline. it was a fundamental failure of the system to do its most basic function.

I don't personally agree with the corruption allegations either - but ultimately that will always happen in some quarters when an information vacuum is left. The way the PGMOL have slowly meted out information piece by piece over the course of 2 days has invited criticism and allegations. That's on them. There's been no chance for this to blow over as there's a new piece of information every couple of hours.

And so what if fans are still annoyed after being screwed over in an entirely new and unfathomable way. What skin off your nose is that? Who cares? I'd have no problem with Brentford fans being pissed off for a few days either, that was also an atrocious call.

This is where I wonder if some people watched the game at all. The red cards and offside goal were only afew examples . Every single vital 50/50 decision was in spurs favour over the game. As a liverpool supporter for a long time, it was literally like watching months of unlucky calls cramped into one insane game .

Your take on why people have a problem with Liverpool is no different to the typical response from a rival fan who if the shoe was on the foot would be saying the same as what Liverpool are now . Almost all reasonable fans here are looking for accountability and transparency.

When you lose a league by a point to a city team after an "apology" to Everton for missing a handball that could decided a league then the consequences of these errors are huge .

Serious questions need to asked why these officials were in the UAE 48 prior to this Liverpool (surely a conflict of interest) and then put a performance like that where they knowingly allow a wrong scoreline to stand

Not your bud and and even when your team you support won, you still on here crying about Liverpools reaction on here :)

But the end result is the same. A club potentially loses points because of a bad decision or poor officiating. Why should what Liverpool suffered elicit any more of an extreme reaction than what Brentford or Wolves suffered?

The point on the reaction is that most clubs are on the wrong end of poor officiating at some point. They have their little moan, are a bit sore about it and move on. The Liverpool reaction is far more extreme than I've seen from any other club over the last few years (including Arsenal who suffered a similar failure in the system last season). And the extreme nature of it has been driven by the bizarre statement the club themselves put out about it last night.

You being at the game only shows you are spurs fan and doesn't give anymore credibility to your comment .

I don't think there is corruption and Jones Red was a red but this isn't a mistake . This is something new where refs knew they was a mistake at the time and choose not to fix it. The fact you think fobbing it off as nothing more that another bad call I totally disagree with and what is driving such outrage for transparency . How can refs for hire fly across the globe 48 hours before a game and perform to the level needed . I'm glad the club is looking for answers and rightly too .

Just to chat about what happened and discuss the new bits of information continuously coming out (it was a pretty noteworthy event, with a lot more nooks and crannies to discuss than you get with your regular bad call, after all). Pretty obvious.

Also, discourse (and particularly conflicting discourse) is what drives a subject to continue - if you're so eager for it to end and so upset by how much people have talked about it, then being so actively involved in it is probably not the best way to go about that...

And Liverpool fans asking for a change to that communication is seemingly wrong going by the constant comments and sniping in this thread, when it only helps every other team to never have the situation that happened on Saturday. Just move on they say.

The VAR told the referee to award the goal but the referee never did and the scoreline never changed. That has never happened before and should never happen again.

All the posters taking about other incidents that are subjective calls is a lot of crap IMO. Subjective calls happen. Such miscommunication cannot. There have been other incidents down the years where incidents have happened and they should not have. They resulted in changes to the system. The Paul Pogba goal against West Ham for example where the cameras were not set up on the sideline. The cameras are now. Only one team ever got on the right side/wrong side of that sort of freak occurence and now every team has the correct set up. It result in an instant change, and for the better. This isn't giving out about a red card etc. It's a system and process change that needs to be made.

A major feck up has to result in a change. This wasn't subjective, it was matter of fact. Subjective happens, matter of fact cannot.

It's not new though. Mike Dean admitted to not making calls he knew were correct because his mate was already having a tough day. In fact, I think Dean's examples were far worse because unlike in the Liverpool game, which seemed to be a genuine breakdown in communication, he basically said he would not make the correct call because it was a mate referring a game. That wasn't a communication issue, just outright cheating.

They really need to do away with all this drawing of lines tbh. There’s already a better system out there, just bloody use it! The automated offsides worked well in the World Cup and would have made the right call for Diaz’s goal at the weekend