Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I think the implication that the democratic leadership of Ukraine doesn't "really care" about the lives lost is without merit or foundation.

All the available evidence demonstrates they are doing all they can to minimise their casualties in this offensive at the expense of equipment, in stark contrast to Russia's approach during its failed offensives.

...

I know it's hard to judge the angle, but I'd have thought it would land more vertical (like an arc) It looks like it's moving near horizontal, like the shell was fired at a shallow angle.

Things are afoot.

Really Breezy? here's a link for you to read, see what you think then. There's another article which goes into even more actual detail's about what Russia needs to be do. If I can find it, I'll post it.

Conflict in Ukraine and Nuclear Weapons — Russia in Global Affairs

not the opposite? the offensive started with equipment lead attacks but they were being taken out, now they are holding their equipment back and attacking with smaller groups of men? Throwing men at lines is the definition of not caring? US generals would have been court-marshalled for performing as the Ukrainians have done this summer.

If the Republicans win in 24 they will likely be mandated to end the war by negotiations , at that stage I guess it will be clear if there has been any point to the war since june this year.

How is that the very definition?

Attacking with smaller groups of men isnt necessarily "throwing men at lines" or not caring.

It isnt. It is you defining it that way to suit your argument.

It is you displaying confirmation bias and circular logic. You have clearly already decided the offensive has failed and therefore frame any lives lost from that point on as wasted.

Your claims have zero standing, zero foundation and therefore zero merit.

How the Ukrainians conduct their war against illegal and unprovoked aggressive expansionism (accompanied by threats of genocidal extermination) is up to them.

I am not sure whether your characterization of "throwing men at lines" comes from (wars are hardly neat and orderly affairs and this is a struggle against barbaric armies from totalitarian regimes).

You apparently wish to come to a modus vivendi with Russia that allows them to retain territory they have illegally captured and would seemingly like to convince us that they will be content with their acquisitions once pen is put to paper(and expulsions /colonizations /mass murders are duly carried out)

He and I posted the same thing. How I posted it is how it normally comes up but you can rewrite links. I only ever see it done to hide the source which this time was a ".ru" site that he knew needed hiding.

Not yet anyway. Will he use them in the future? Now that's the million dollar ( or more) question. Also its often mentioned about sandal clad Afghans defeating the mighty Russian army, but its worth remembering that it took 10 years to get them out, and the two main reasons for defeating them were, (1). The US started supplying the Mujahidin with shoulder held weapons capable of downing the Russian helicopter Gunships ( the Hind) Once the Russians lost air superiority, they were doomed, and (2) the Afghan war was driving Russia to bankruptcy. When the last Russian has left Ukraine, then I'll believe that its over, and Ukraine has won, and Putin has lost. But until then, and despite all of the talk about Russia losing etc. I'll be keeping an open mind on it, and especially any miracle break through, causing the Russians to down tools en-masse, and head back to Russia. Which of course would be the best possible outcome.

Well if nothing else the war from June to the next US elections will have weakened the Russian army so it will be longer for them to rebuild and break said agreement.

Which they will do.

Well you were right about one thing Breezy, My use of the word "Balkan" instead of "Baltics" . Mea Culpa. But aside from that, You have Serbia, who while not 100% in support of Putin, many are, and far too many, in my opinion.

But he’s right

That Russian global affairs article is some read I must say.

The world in 1939 was very much a “multi-polar world “. That’s the world they want to bring back??

They really are just shaking their fist at the sky.

The consequences of them nuking a mid size city in Eastern Europe are unknown and unthinkable but how they can think they could gain any favourable outcome from such action is unbelievable.