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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    What part of the EU super grid are we connected to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,608 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You think a single LNG terminal will give us dependable electricity?

    Without the vast majority of our electricity coming from other sources (Wind, Solar and Interconnectors) there is no way we would be able to rely on a single LNG plant for our electricity supply.

    And then, the LNG plant would be doing nothing that couldn't be achieved better by building additional interconnectors to the EU grid and storing things like Biogas from animal and agricultural waste

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,608 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    What do you want, for us to not sign a deal that obliges the UK to supply us with gas?

    You like the old self flagellation do ya?

    Maybe you'd prefer that we waste billions building excessive infrastructure that will only be required in an event when the raw materials required to utilise that infrastructure will be in massive short supply

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,608 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Why are you saying that they will not be held to the contracts they signed last year? Have you seen the terms of their contracts? The obligations they have on their side? the exit clauses?

    There is an auction process. The sellers are trying to ramp up the price of their services in advance of the negotiations. When a deal is struck, them that is the agreed price for the term of the contract. If the auction fails, then another round will be held for a different strike price.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    European industry has been crippled by a constriction in fossil fuels, a constriction that can only get worse since all forms of fossil fuel (apart from coal) have passed peak production. So what do the bright sparks here advocate - more fossil fuel investment so we can be locked into the death spiral. Clever.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Don't think anyone is advocating to be more dependent on fossil fuels, but certainly build the infrastructure to use it as backup where and when it's needed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,608 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We will be connected to the French Grid by 2027 and the Government has plans to build additional connectors to Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0726/1396503-up-to-five-new-electricity-interconnectors-planned/

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So thats fairly much accepted policy. I don't think anyone here is advocating decommissioning gas/oil infrastructure before we are ready.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Is the Celtic Interconnector started yet?

    The rest of that RTE report is wishy washy with no firm commitments but proposals and visions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Maybe you should realise you are not actually in a conversation or debate where reasonable arguments are put forward but instead in an imaginary court where it is a matter of attack and deflect. Also, nobody can stand being wrong or even admit error despite obvious non sequiturs. Logic can be weaponized or be stated in an alternate universe where laws are suspended and 2+2 does NOT equal 4. If you have a one sided and simple target and determined you cannot be in error then everything flies. It is beneficial to be narrow minded sometimes. Less energy spent on complexity.

    So, i simply stop communicating with simpletons if the windows of opportunities keep being shut and put them on 'ignore'. I respect a solid argument, even a wrong one. But it requires a certain base level of intelligence and logic. There is a lot of ignorance out there, not all deliberate. Some just like to throw theirs in your face. That is where my tolerance ends..



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  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭ps200306


    You think a single LNG terminal will give us dependable electricity?

    Without the vast majority of our electricity coming from other sources (Wind, Solar and Interconnectors) there is no way we would be able to rely on a single LNG plant for our electricity supply.

    And then, the LNG plant would be doing nothing that couldn't be achieved better by building additional interconnectors to the EU grid and storing things like Biogas from animal and agricultural waste

    Let me get this straight, you don't think one LNG terminal would be enough so your cunning plan is zero? I'd have thought that if you don't have enough you build more, not less. Germany built three last year alone, with three more in the pipeline. Even with costs doubling compared to initial estimates the price per terminal is much lower than the Celtic interconnector (whose cost will almost certain soar too, given that it's only on the drawing board). How long do you think it's going to take us to build 6GW worth of interconnectors? And how does it square with our plan to generate hydrogen for storage, which means we won't have any electricity for export?



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Further evidence (as if any was needed) that the climate change denial silliness that oft gets posted here represents only a marginal view among the Irish public. Truth is the Irish public strongly support all the actions being taken

    95% think climate change is a serious problem, only 5% don't

    image.png

    Incredibly strong support for continued action (psst, this is why you are not going to see any future govt try to dismantle the climate action plans)

    image.png

    Encouraging to see such a high % of people taking action within their own lives to reduce impacts

    image.png

    The IFA will be giving out next, 26% are eating less meat

    image.png

    Incredibly high support, at 94%, for emissions reduction action

    image.png

    An insane 96% want to see the govt take action to increase renewable energy generation while 94% think the govt should do more to improve energy efficiency (retrofits, solar panels, EV's etc)

    image.png

    Being mindful of some of the discussion over the last day here, this is particularly relevant, 60% say we should speed up the transition to renewables, energy efficiency, with another 28% saying we're going at the right pace......only 9% support using more fossil fuels. That doesn't bode well for the likes of an LNG terminal getting support

    image.png

    Several posters here keep saying "people won't support x, y or z, yet every.single.time a survey comes out and they are all consistently saying the exact same thing...there is widespread support.

    It reminds me of this thread




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Any evidence that we've passed peak production? The IEA forecasts peak oil production for around the end of this decade, but it is premised on peak demand not a limitation on supply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Given that Vattenfall are pulling out of projects already in development, I don't know why you think more recently awarded projects can be forced to go ahead. You can't enforce contract terms on a company that is prepared to go bankrupt.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is about half the reserves of oil and gas left in the ground but all the easy and good reserves have already been exhausted. What that means is that each barrel of new production increases in cost to develop. So there maybe enough reserves in the ground for another hundred years but most of it cannot be economically extracted. Fracking has been a short lived, very expensive and very environmentally damaging blip on the downward trajectory but Fracked wells barely manage 3 years before abandonment or refracking. Fracking is a symptom of the terminal decline of oil/gas because at no other time would the price of oil have supported it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Any questions there about how much Joe Public is willing top personally pay for the change over, or is it assumed someone else will do it and they can carry on unaffected?

    I'm all for making things better but I'll be damned if I'll pay 50/60/70% tax to achieve it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Further evidence (as if any was needed) that the climate change denial silliness that oft gets posted here represents only a marginal view among the Irish public. Truth is the Irish public strongly support all the actions being taken

    We must be reading different threads. I haven't see any climate change denial on here. Clearly you are conflating disagreement with solutions policy with climate change denial. Don't worry, I understand, Greenies are congenitally incapable of distinguishing between the two. Of course the public are supportive -- they've been scared silly and are Grade A clueless about the costs coming down the tracks (which the Greens won't discuss).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Aye and Lukaschenko gets 99.9989% of the vote at every election 🙄

    Ask deeper questions and you'll get very different results



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I haven't heard of any proposals for 50-70% tax rates, have you?



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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Call it disagreement with solutions policy if you want, either way, its a tiny portion of the electorate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The survey questions are all unconstrained questions, the answers will reflect the cultural narrative expectations. If the survey incorporated reality-constrained questions the result flips.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Unless you know differently, U.K. media, including the online newspaper The Independent, have reported that Vattenfall not honouring the Norfolk Boreas 1.7 Gigawatt contract are not liable for any financial penalties, so why would it be different for any others ?



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Show us that flipped survey, otherwise that pinch of salt is waiting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Companies last August accepted contracts for 7 Gigawatts of offshore.

    So yet again, do you believe that they will now honour those contracts when others are now saying that they would need a price 40% higher or they would be losing money ?

    I know greens are pretty much rubish when it comes to mathematics, but it`s not a complicated mathematical equation. At least not in the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,921 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    The Interconnection Policy just asks Eirgrid to explore further connections. It doesn't suggest that they will actually happen. If they're not economic (which looks like it could be the case based on murmurings from various TSOs), they won't materialise. Only Greenlink and Celtic are committed to build.

    Save boards.ie by subscribing: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,921 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    We are only part of a European wide energy market on paper (at least as far as electricity is concerned). The continent and GB are coupled at Day Ahead stage, but the same does not apply to the SEM. We are only coupled hours later at the Intraday auctions (where the continental interconnectors are already firm) so we are effectively isolated from the European electricity markets.

    Save boards.ie by subscribing: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,318 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    So you implying that nokia and blackbery failed because they did not went for green ideas? I thought you were talking about getting stuck with old ideas and fail to which I pointed that pepsi or coca cola are stuck with old ideas like original recipes and such and still being strong. Them buying some EV trucks does not mean that is a cause of their success.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Exactly, it's full of 'wishy washy' aspirational questions designed to get maximum approval by those setting them. Take the question 'The cost of damages due to climate change are much higher than that needed for for investment in green transition'

    76% of 'Irish people' (just how many did they ask and how did they select them) agree with this!! 76%!! Which is clearly patent nonsense as no one knows either the 'cost of damages due to climate change' and they certainly don't know what is the figure for 'investment in green transition'. It just a question based on sentiment and a test of public messaging across the media. You might as well ask Sean or Sinead Citizen if they prefer summer to winter. Or do they like cheap air flights even if there is an environmental cost - that'd be 76%!



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