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Removal of Tullamore MW mast.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    Even though it relayed Radio 1 for the past number of years, it is hard to believe that the transmitter site was only used 'as intended' (as the primary method of broadcasting Atlantic 252) for 12 years.

    Shame to see it all demolished now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭TheBMG


    I haven’t been inside the 252 facility in about twenty years and things may have changed with RTE taking it back in 2003ish but I don’t recall ever seeing any third party gear or even stuff that could’ve been used to the benefit of RTE (microwave links, back ups, telemetry etc). It really did seem to be a stand alone facility at the time.

    OT but even with the 252 mast being so slender I was able to see it with the naked eye from Three Rock mountain on a number of occasions. You could see it gleaming in the distance quite clearly if you had a very bright sunny day and you knew where to look



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    I wonder if they have all the ground all around the tided up, I suppose the mast must be in absolute sh1t, only to be recycled, some load of metal to remove.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    Another factor which conspired against RTE (mostly due to their own incompetence), was interference with Algeria. Anyone north of the TX would not be able to null that out, even if they cared to.

    I was tuning around, and Chaine 3 in North Africa, unencumbered by little old Paddy Land is coming in like a train.

    Sample is via a Technics tuner from the early 80s, direct line input to a PC.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Algeria run 1.5 megawatts on 252 and half that in the evening, which is multiples of the output that RTE were allowed to use per frequency allocation agreements.

    If this is your idea of incompetence......



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    No, it's not-what's with the dickishness?

    Incompetence is not applying for a more suitable frequency allocation in the first place.

    Or applying for a change when the issue became apparent-the whole band was empty FFS.

    Incompetence, or maybe wilful intent, is denying you're going to knock the thing and then doing so anyway, while the lads with the pyrotechnics were up the road.

    I'm well aware of what Algerie are putting out, what's your point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭PukkaStukka


    BBC LW on 198khz is also on the way out. Certainly sea farers would have a legitimate argument about alternatives to the beloved shipping forecast whilst at sea.

    BBC Radio 4 begins information campaign to transition listeners from Long Wave - Media Centre



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    Some mild protesting has already become evident-the same reasoning as accompanied announcements around the closure of 252 (the first time).

    I suspect they will come to nothing though.

    By accident or apathy, the audio quality on 198 has suffered intermittent issues on and off over the last couple of years, with excessive sibilance at times making for difficult listening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭PukkaStukka


    Funnily enough and when holidaying in to the Scottish Highlands, I found reception of 198 LW from Droitwich occasionally flakey, whereas 252 was always clear. Even after they halved the power output from Clarkestown a few years ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    It could be argued that RTE were not running at their allocated power level and were no longer able to after the transmitter replacement in 2007. In addition to that, they dropped the power further to 150/60, ensuring that Algeria would easily overpower it at night.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭Antenna


    There is a tower made available to mobile operators etc just inside the entrance on the left, visible here, which would count as third party use, been there for several years (since sometime after Atlantic 252 I would think):

    County Meath - Google Maps



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    This has been discussed a fair bit in the past.

    From the GE75 allocations, all LW allocations higher in frequency than 254/252 kHz were to the east of the iron curtain.

    Those of use with fair memories will remember the ill-fated Musicmann 279 project looking to establish a radio station on 279 kHz from the Isle of Man - one of the noted pitfalls was that while the frequency was cleared for 500kW ERP daytime, it would have been restricted (at least initially) to an ERP of 10kW at nighttime.

    So presumably there were restrictions to AM broadcasting in western Europe in the upper echolons of the LW band at the time - indeed the prior European MW conference in 1948 had noted objection from both Ireland & the UK to the Czechoslovak 272kHz allocation on the basis it could interference local ship-to-shore communications which were on around these frequencies at that time (these had gone by 1975, hence Ireland were awarded a broadcasting allocation on 252 kHz with night-time restrictions in GE75).

    As for going on to another frequency on the LW band, this would have necessitated not only filing in the relevant paperwork to the ITU & gaining approval from countries with the same allocation, but also would have needed significant physical & technical work to be done at the Summerhill site to change transmissions to a significantly different frequency on the band. As it was, as someone who lived north to north west of the site, listening to the station in the evening was not an issue concerning Co-channel interference from Algeria.

    Altogether, with MW & LW broadcasts in Europe being a largely dwindling medium over the last couple decades, there was likely little good reason for RTÉ to actively invest very heavily into such facilities, and recent financial scandles aside, the was one area that RTÉ were somewhat fine to keep opaque about the facilities in Summerhill (and to a lesser extent in Tullamore) - give too much notice as of the closure of such broadcast facilities and you end up with a few noisy anoraks astroturfing to try and keep transmissions going that pretty much no-one - including themselves - are actually actively listening to, so RTÉ did what some others have done elsewhere and give just a couple of weeks notice before pulling the plug and the lack of any effective outrage on it means they made the correct decision here IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    From the GE75 allocations, all LW allocations higher in frequency than 254/252 kHz were to the east of the iron curtain.

    I wonder what the reason for that was.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    Great detailed 2RN footage here of Summerhill PRE and POST demolition here:

    How they knocked the Atlantic 252 mast - YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭Antenna


    Same video also available here with it seems better picture quality :

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/2rn_clarkstown-transmitter-on-the-27th-july-2023-activity-7092867491017678848-b_Ki

    I think the year 1988 is inaccurate for the mast being built, was it not 1989 ?

    Post edited by Antenna on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ridiculous the Youtube upload is only 480p. The LinkedIn one is better but still not great. Looks like they took out a couple of trees...

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    My honest answer for that is - I don't know! However, I suspect that at the time the allocations were drawn up, the higher frequency end of the LW band (from ~260 kHz up) either was still officially allocated for ship-to-shore transmissions in some part of ITU Region 1 and so needed to be protected, or that it was to protect NDB beacons somewhere, possibly in the Atlantic, from interference.

    I'd also say that if the 263/272/281 kHz allocations were available to western Europe from what was agreed in GE75, Ireland would have almost certainly wanted to have taken one of those frequencies instead of being left with the compromise 254 kHz frequency which was cleared for Tullamore for 500kW omnidirectional radiation during daytime, but at night had directional restrictions towards Finland & Algeria that were -7db from an otherwise 500kW max ERP allocation. For those doing the maths, -7db from 500kW ERP is of course 100kW and when it came to setting up the Radio Tara site at Summerhill, RTE & RTL clearly thought there was no point in setting up a directional aerial system to meet these night time ITU requirements especially as these directional restrictions would have affected GB coverage anyway, and so settled on transmitting 100kW omnidirectional during night hours (albeit not transmitting past 7pm at first, which changed not too long after).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It just seems crazy that it spent its last few years in an almost empty band sharing a frequency with one of the most powerful broadcasters in the world... sod's law... but why seemingly no limits on what Algeria can pump out??

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    Thanks for all this info-it's very interesting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭Antenna


    I'm sure I read someone suggesting that a solar farm might go at 'Summerhill-Clarkstown' (ex LW 252 site) - on Long Wave Radio Atlantic 252 | Facebook page

    There is a 38kV substation at the western end of the site so the electricity infastructure is already there for a significant sized one if that was the case:

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4624689,-6.6823034,63m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

    Post edited by Antenna on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    if you have an old decent MW / LW radio you'll still find a good few stations at night



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭TheBMG


    It’s not my personal taste in music but there’s something very nerdy/anoraky hearing Radio Caroline on 648 at night. Even has that lovely MW atmospheric long fade in and out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    Radio XL (Asian radio station) Birmingham, England coming in loud and clear on 1296 MW in the west coast of Ireland tonight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    I think I can remember on that last day that 612 switched to a feed of RTE Radio 1 for an hour or two, do you remember that? It was probably just a case of RTENL engineers messing around. Btw, your recording is very nice bit of nostalgia , hearing ads for Vodafone real tones etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    Are the dismantled masts still on the ground at ballycommon and Clarkstown? any recent photos of the sites? The 1 dismantled mast at the Moydrum site remained on the ground for ages



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    Approx 1 year ago this week, the Tullamore and Summerhill sticks fell ☹️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    I was there paying my respects for Tullamore, but they pulled a very fast one and didn't give an opportunity for people to say goodbye to the longwave giant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    Yes they kept it extremely quiet, I wonder was it really a case that they feared that the highly active campaigners, who succeeded in delaying the closure of RTE LW252 by a decade would mount a challenge to the mast demolition ? The Tullamore demolition was put out to public tender, presumably the same contractors did both masts but only Tullamore was publicly tendered for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Really, campaigners to retain a mast which hadn't been used for years and would never be used again?

    Some people really have nothing better to do with their time, if so…

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    At the time I didn't expect it to happen exclusively because unlike Tullamore 2RN had not looked for planning permission to topple it. One wonders why it wasn't required in this instance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    It’s like lads who spot planes, take the last journey on a particular bus route, or get nostalgic for Bord na Mona narrow gauge rail. It’s pure anorak and neckbeard stuff, but relatively harmless.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I’ve heard in the past that one of the planning conditions was that it be removed once no longer needed, due to the outcry from locals at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    are the transmitter buildings still at clarkstown / summerhill i wonder ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Those things are actually harmless and done at their own expense.

    Trying to force a public body to waste money isn't harmless.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    How very dare you! The 48B was a critical part of Barton Road's history, I will have you know 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    What I thought was strange, that when TT252 went off air in summer 02, we didn't hear a peep from the locals looking for the mast to be removed, even though their court case would surely have been fresher in the memory at the time, just over a decade on. It also took RTE almost 2 years after the closure of TT252 to commit to using the Mast permanently



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭WHL


    The old RTE mast at Mahon in Cork is being dismantled at the moment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 881 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    That’s been idle for a long time. Used to carry radio 1 on 729khz and 2fm on 1278khz. Possible some FM transmissions too.

    Very close to one of the busiest roads in the city - could be a slow delicate operation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭WHL


    Watching it from a distance but most, if not all, seems to have been removed in one day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭Antenna


    Some pictures attached of the aftermath of dismantling the mast at Ballinure, Mahon, with mast sections on the ground. I believe it was there from the end of the 1960s. Removal of a significant landmark near the South Ring Road especially for anyone turning off for Mahon Point Shopping Centre etc (the smaller mast for mobile and tetra operators on the edge of the site of course remains)

    Post edited by Antenna on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 881 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    Were/are the transmitters still there? The market for high power medium wave transmitters must be dwindling these days - chances are the equipment is old too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    From what I heard, 2rn sold the Tullamore and Cork AM transmitters for scrap metal back in the early 2010s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    I wonder is the cork Site going to be built on ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    This time 20 years ago, Tullamore 567 was off-air undergoing a 3 million euro refurbishment, before the closure on 19/07/04, RTE sent this booklet to every household in the country explaining how to retune the wireless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    All that for a temporary closedown affecting a small proportion of listeners.

    Money was clearly not a problem for them at the time

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭Antenna


    I thought that was available in public libraries (as well as from RTE), - I don't recall it being delivered to "every household in the country" ?



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