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Spain - Women World Cup Champions - 1 week later. (How not to manage a crises)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Why are people equating the euphoria of winning a world cup with working in an office. It's weird.

    He apologised and then it was clear he was to be cancelled.

    He is entitled to defend himself, isn't he?

    The press release was issued to the AP on the Sunday, the claim is she was pressured to give it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I have sympathy for both because this fiasco has very little to do with either of them which I stated previously.

    The now entrenched militancy they have both adopted has absolutely no reflection on what actually happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Men should be allowed to kiss women on the lips if they are in the mood. Consent is something only woke feminists care about. That's the message from the men's rights incels. Their whole movement is about men having dominance over women. They have some very scary views on what they consider appropriate sexual behaviour from males.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I don't see militancy on her side. She has just released a statement. He has threatened to sue her to shut her up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,062 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    And here's their guiding light

    Maybe Rubiales overestimated his own star rating...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,437 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Really good read, this incident really is just the tip of the iceberg...serious issues with him already and with RFEF in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,065 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Yes, and playing devils advocate….

    He either got caught up in the emotions of the occasion and or maybe had a little too much to drink …

    Rubiales is Spanish, his team just won a World Cup…. With him present…as the President of the Federation…..

    was his behaviour appropriate ? No…

    was it professional given he’s there in a professional capacity and not a fan ? No…

    he didn’t commit a crime however, he just let the emotion of the occasion get the better of his judgement….and looked like a ridiculously overexcited needy teenage weirdo gimp in front of the world… totally inappropriate but nothing more, guy is an eejit, nothing worse.

    ideally…. shake hands, smile… “ hey, you were brilliant, well done, you did your country proud, thanks for everything “



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    She is only one of many doing that yet she is the only one being threatened with being sued. She was the object of his unwanted affection yet you think he deserves equal sympathy.

    You might reflect on why you are in minority position in thinking he should retain his position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You might reflect on why you are in minority position in thinking he should retain his position.

    What makes you think my opinion on the situation would be in the minority?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    From all the players managers people even in the FA who Rubiales can threaten going against him and the majority of commentators in Spanish society. Society it seems is against this behaviour now, no matter how much you think this should not be so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,885 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    What he did was inappropriate, but by jaysus folks are way OTT in their analysis/take on it, which is if no surprise really… seemed nothing intentionally sexual what he did. He was giddy, excited, elated and it happened spontaneously for a split second. Had it been a man he did it too there’d be no story!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That doesn't prove my opinion would be in the minority. That is just silly.

    I have been honest and forthright in my opinions on what happened, coloured by the backdrop of the historical context which I followed because I actually have an interest in football.

    You can try and debate those actual opinions instead of dismissing them by using some made up gauge.

    People don't usually like to give their opinions when it comes to things like this because they will be accused of wrong think or being rapist apologists.

    Much like this has turned into you just have entrenched militant view points with no room for reasoned debate.

    He will be cancelled, primarily because the sponsors are making noise.

    In the long run incidents like this will be the death knell for the vital essence of Me Too and probably depending on who takes over send womens football in Spain backwards again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    So you think if in the man's world Cup if the fa president kissed a male player in the mouth, then made up the story that the male player gave consent, and then threatened to sue that player when he didn't back him up you believe there would be no repercussions? Are you serious?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There was an element though of he hijacking the medal ceremony and making it all about him. This was the Spanish players' moment and their achievement and yet he had to gate crash the presentation and almost take it over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    then made up the story that the male player gave consent

    How do you know he made the story?

    He definitely says something to her before the kiss.

    Again there is no room for the establishment of facts, straight to cancelation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,885 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I said we wouldn’t even have a story if he did what he did to a male player.

    Like I said, what he did was inappropriate, clumsy. But there is just no common sense, balance or compromise any more.

    Mountain ouha molehill all this. Nobody was hurt here.

    I wouldn’t hang him for this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    You can ignore the players and coaches all you want and their actions now to oust Rubiales. Sure, just handwave it away and pretend this is the majority position. The manager of the female team who is being offered a half a million euro conract is even against Rubiales now.

    You may say you are involved in football but you are in dreamland if you think you could do the same without repercussions and losing your job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think you are in the minority. And its not just the actions on the day that should be judged but his actions since that has hung him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,885 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Hey, he comes across as an abrasive prick. I get that. My point strictly relates to the actual incident.

    Had he immediately been contrite and admitted what he did was inappropriate, albeit he didn’t mean it in any sexual way, would you still call for his sacking?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Only if he had got the player on board with whatever statement he was going to put out and they released a joint statement. When forcing her to release a statement defending him he should have walked after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    I think he is in the majority.

    The same majority who know why elite female footballers don't get paid the same as male elite footballers.

    The same majority of people who have no interest in womens football despite the massive amount of media exposure it has been receiving over the last 6/8 years.

    The same majority who are getting very tired of the incessant accusations and constant whining about pay and conditions.

    Don't get me wrong, on boards, he is in the minority, if fact one of the permanent residents here will be along shortly to accuse the poster of being a rape apologist or some such nonsense, ,but in the real world he is in the majority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Hang on you have determined my opinion is in the minority position, I asked you how you came to that conclusion. You still have not answered.

    I was at a family event yesterday, the majority of which were women where the consensus was this was overblown nonsense.

    Does my unscientific gauge invalidate your opinion?

    Of course it doesn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    He is in the minority postion in Spanish football and that is what will hang him.

    As a matter of interest would you have done what he did when you were involved in football? Would you think that was acceptable?

    All your posts are defending this guy and the only time recently you mention the female player was to cast doubt on her statement on the kiss.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,130 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So you just completely disregard what she actually says?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,130 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I heard a man on the radio yesterday. His taking was "oh there's nothing to it"

    The presenter asked him. "If he kissed you without consent how would you react" - "I'd punch him"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,371 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You said you firmly believe the players had no problem with it until it was created. I demonstrated that your belief is without foundation - the players clearly had massive problems with the way they were being treated, culminating in the events of recent days.

    You speak of if women’s football want parity with men’s football the professionalism has to be there, but women aren’t responsible for the professionalism not being there - Rubiales and the Spanish Football Federation are responsible for the way they have acted wholly unprofessionally, and now they’re being held accountable for it.

    Yes btw - suffer, because that’s what happened, and the fact that you think the only thing that matters is their success in football which you attribute to Rubiales, is frankly neither here nor there. It’s irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    I don't disregard it any more than I regard it. What she says afterwards is pretty much irrelevant because you can't be assasulted after the fact, as I said. If she gave every indication at the time that she consented to a celebratory kiss - and all indications from the vidoes posted shows that she did, then how was anyone to know to back off and not go there. Not when it's always been normal behaviour in football to kiss each other in big celebrations.


    Well, I don't sanction violence, but at least he's making his intentions clear. The player did not, if her intentions at the time really were that she wasn't up for a celebratory kiss.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not when it's always been normal behaviour in football to kiss each other in big celebrations.

    Sorry what? I seem to have missed this normal behaviour constantly happening after football matches.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,062 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    it's always been normal behaviour in football to kiss each other in big celebrations.


    It's normal for sports administrators to kiss players on the lips after a major victory?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I didn't see that in the women's gaa final this year. Maybe it's a new thing. The perks of being an administrator I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,885 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You wouldn’t see what the poster is describing here in Ireland. It does not happen, at least not happen naturally/frequently



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,062 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    I didn't see the president of the Argentinian FA landing a smacker on Messi's lips after the men's World Cup final either. He probably would have got a different kind of smnacker in return. And possibly a night in a Qatari jail...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,885 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This planting kisses on lips of teammates happens, but not at all frequently. It’s a bit weird if ya ask me. Wee bit too personal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭sonofenoch




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Ah I think the case is wrapped up now. Despite the fact the lady said she did not give consent, didn't like what he did and the players are now going on strike to get rid of Rubiales., its ok as Scholes kissed Neville back in the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,347 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The story has come up multiple times with various groups of work colleagues and a large group of friends recently, haven't come across any support for him.

    I would wager any Spanish polls would show pretty much the same result. The fact that he seems determined to die on this hill which isn't helping him much.

    Edit: found one, 71% want him to resign




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You are forgetting the backdrop to this, there was a lot of people in Spanish Football who wanted to see the ladies team fail and by extension the manager and FA.

    I imagine this also contributed to his exuberant celebrations.

    As a matter of interest would you have done what he did when you were involved in football? Would you think that was acceptable?

    I don't really she how this hypothetical is relevant or helpful.

    But I suppose if I was responsible for championing the ladies team in terms of conditions, pay and parity and under immense pressure from people in my own country and footballing community who hoped to see me fail and we won the first every international tournament, the elite one I would probably have gone bananas TBH.

    All your posts are defending this guy and the only time recently you mention the female player was to cast doubt on her statement on the kiss.

    I'm not defending anyone, I'm giving my honest opinion as I see it. Which I am actually entitled to, even if you are trying your best to shut it down.

    The reality is this guy is cancelled, it's only a matter of time before it's official.

    We are running out of witches, Klopp picked a female coach up earlier and gave her a bear hug, it is only a matter of time before he is up in front of the mob.



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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,354 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Some posts deleted

    If anyone requires further clarification on this please PM me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    He is not being cancelled. He is reaping the consequences of his actions. He has achieved alot with women's football but has been pretty bad for the men's team so I would say that will have a bigger effect on his future career prospects if he is sacked.

    You complain about hypotheticals but then compare this case with a hypothetical future action against Klopp??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You said you firmly believe the players had no problem with it until it was created.

    Yes. This has snowballed spectacularly because it is orchestrated.

    Like I said this is very little to do with the actual kiss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No Klopp literally picked a woman up several feet off the found and bear hugged her.

    That is not hypothetical.

    There is people this very thread who have stated that is invasion of privacy and should not happen.


    He is not being cancelled. He is reaping the consequences of his actions.

    Ah he is yeah. If he lasts until Friday I'll be shocked, the sponsors have spoken.

    It was the same with Greenwood at United, their investigation found he did not do what he was accused of doing and was to be reintegrated into the squad, sponsors said no. Gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭Musicrules




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,333 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Edgelords gotta edgelord.

    Its a bizarre take to be whining about "cancelling".

    Some people just refuse completely to accept any responsibilities. I can see why Rudiales (and Greenwood) would appeal to certain types.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Its hypothetical he will be sanctioned for it in some way for it. If you are saying the mob will go after him, we will have to wait and see.

    I mean if i embarrassed my company in a public setting, I would be sacked. I just wouldnt call that cancelling. Greenwood is bad for the Manu brand so will be transferred out. Again I'm not why you are calling that cancelling. Years ago that would just be called taking a business decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,371 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    But it’s quite clear the players did have problems with the way they were being treated, contrary to your belief that they had no problem with the latest incident until in your opinion it was created.

    Created by whom? Because Hermano can hardly be accused of not knowing the circumstances involved, as you tried to do earlier by way of dismissing anyone who didn’t share your perspective.

    The kiss as I said earlier, was just the straw that broke the camel’s back, after a culmination of being treated like crap. The idea of trying to distract from that by pointing to the idea that without Rubiales they wouldn’t be as successful as they are, and they’ll go back to where they were without him, is no different to an abuser telling their ex the same thing.

    You’re implying it’s the players who weren’t behaving professionally as the men’s game, but it’s Rubiales and the Spanish FF who have shown themselves to be incapable of behaving professionally when it comes to the women’s game. The point was made earlier and it still stands:

    Speaking on the Spanish broadcaster Cadena Ser, the presenter José Luis Sastre hinted at a double standard at play. “In the hundreds of celebrations that we’ve seen between Rubiales and male players, he didn’t grab any of them by the head in order to give them a kiss without asking.”

    Video from the celebrations also shows Rubiales kissing other players on the cheeks and embracing them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/21/luis-rubiales-kiss-outrage-spanish-football-fa-president-womens-world-cup-final-spain-jenni-hermoso



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Sadly years ago sex pests flourished. It's why the essence of Me Too was so vitally important and still is.

    It's over correction, contrition and redemption are no longer options.

    In the long run this will only hurt the essence of it.

    You will have literal despots being put into positions of power where they will actually do real harm campaigning on the back of it.

    Look what Trump did with the Supreme Court which led to erosion of 50 years of Women's reproductive health.

    When the likes of Jennifer Aniston is calling publicly for the culture to stop, citing the fact that not everyone is Harvey Winstein, you know it's probably time reassess.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,009 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The kiss as I said earlier, was just the straw that broke the camel’s back, after a culmination of being treated like crap

    You keep saying that without citation.

    The current FA brought womens football in terms of conditions and pay up to the same standard as the men.

    They just won their first ever tournament, the literal World Cup.



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