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Calling yourself British.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭crusd


    They can say they are from the U.K. yes, of course, because it's the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

    Can we start calling the unionists Uckish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,930 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    And hence the difficulty in identifying as “Northern Irish”- the term means very little these days and those that do identify as Northern Irish more than likely associate with norms and values that are rooted in the unionist traditions as opposed to the nationalist traditions.

    The closer we move towards a vote on a united Ireland (I personally dread that day), the more I think, those that want to remain under the UK will vocally identify as British and those that want to unite with Ireland will identify as Irish, again vocally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    Some people seem to be confused, and I guess it is confusing as it's a bit of a quirk, but ...

    "Britain" does not include Northern Ireland.

    But, "British" does include people from Northern Ireland.

    Just look at the demonym section of the Wiki page for the United Kingdom.

    image.png





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    The hardline unionists just want to identify with the former empire... the majority have a Scottish heritage, but thats not a strong enough case to stay in the 'empire' so they #call themselves British to big it up and make it sound like they are part of something bigger...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭Hyperbollix


    It's a strange one and is probably, like most things, personal to the individual

    Reminds me of Noel Gallagher. Depending on the interviewer, he's Irish, doesn't follow the England football team and hates the monarchy. On another day he describes himself as British, played a union jack guitar, strongly identifies with Britpop and that whole Cool Britannia thing in the 90s.

    As for why an Irishman like Sammy Wilson, who has spent his life trying to explain to people why he isn't actually Irish when they think he is? There's votes and a career in it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I don't think the unionist community up north would say they are exclusively or uniquely British - isn't the whole idea of stating they are British to identify with a great British population across the water? But when you scratch the surface, just as you call yourself English rather than British - the Unionist man/ woman would actually identify more as an Ulsterman or woman. Ulster has it's own culture and imho people from Donegal or Monaghan etc have more in common with those from Antrim or Armagh than they do with Cork or Kerry or Dublin.

    Of course we all live on the 'British Isles' too, which is controversial but I've never heard a better alternative collective description, where & if one is needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,435 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I don't know where you got that from The UK consists of the 'UK and NI' = British. To say otherwise is to do what a certain political party does. Which is to pretend that neither the Republic of Ireland, nor Northern Ireland exist.

    Intsead they Referring to Northern Ireland as the Six Counties/the North while referring to the Republic of Ireland as 'this State', when in it - or the Irish government when talking about it the representatives of 'this state'.

    Because if such a party uses the names NI or the ROI the cognitive dissonance spell is broken.

    Regarding the the OP's question I get the impression that is a wind up, you only have to look at the excitement and constant mention of Britons/Team GB during the Olympics etc

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,323 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    It might be equivalent to an Irish person identifying as "European"

    I doubt most would, unless they are in a situation where they are the only European in a large group



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    I lived in England for a decade and OP is correct, every British person I knew thought as themselves as English, Scottish or Welsh.

    "a terrible war imposed by the provisional IRA"

    Our West Brit Taoiseach



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    100%

    depending on who I'm talking to I'm European or Irish. Usually European though!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭rock22


    All the English people I know living in Ireland also call themselves English rather than British.

    But from an earlier post

    "54.8% of the population identify as British, and only as British. (This is sharply up from 2011, when only 19.1% did so.)"

    So could it be that this change to using the term British simply happened since you came to Ireland, 30 yrs ago? Would English people coming here in the last ten years more likely use the term 'British' ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,774 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Monaco is a principality. I know many Welsh people who speak their own language and they definately call themselves Welsh not British.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,930 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Can I ask you a question- were the vast majority of them white?

    I’m curious to know just how people from an ethnic minority background might firstly describe themselves vs how a white person with roots in the British Isles going back generations might describe themselves.

    Im guessing that someone maybe first “windrush” generation, but born in UK would state British as opposed to “English” ? But very happy to be corrected or educated here too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,435 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    You are leaving out the second part though many say English/Scottish/Irish or Welsh. But the second part of the answer is many feel British as well you only have to look at Rory Mcllroy. He sees himself as Irish and British. But more British than Irish. Also the golf Tournament he won is called the British Open colloquially known as 'the open'.

    The English seem to have varying degrees of Britishness within there own Englishness as well.

    image003-2.png


    Judging by the above the OP finds themselves in the '15%' = 'English not British'. When taking into account the rest there is about 80% or so of English people who identify with at least some form of 'Britishness'.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,774 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    See below from 2.40..Ali G on British..

    So is you 'ere on 'oliday?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭jeremyr62


    In those circumstance, England, but again, for me the label barely matters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭snowstorm445


    I think you've made a valid point that most people when asked will primarily identify with their country in the UK, and then as British. NI Unionists are the exception as they call themselves British first and foremost, with any other identities coming in distant second (Northern Irish, Ulstermen, even Irish sometimes). You see it a lot with "post-colonial" identities - people from Gibraltar/the Falklands/anywhere general away from the mother country but still identifying with it.

    Basically only two sorts of people in the UK primarily identify as British - NI Unionists and ethnic minorities in England who see themselves as British but not English (which seems to regarded as an ethnic identity, unlike in Scotland and Wales where minorities are happy to call themselves Scottish or Welsh). I think this map illustrates it pretty well.

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭jeremyr62



    I hear UK passport used a lot, so not so clear cut on that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,930 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Could that be a nationalist thing I wonder- being “English” is all that matters to me- Using the label “British” dilutes my identity and it becomes shared with other regions I don’t necessarily identify with -“ “English” is my most pure form of identity and it’s the only label I wish to identify with? “



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,930 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    As I’ve said above I think the more ethnically diverse you are, the more likely you are to use the term “British” vs English, Scottish etc

    Possibly native Scots and Welsh are more welcoming of ethnically diverse people and willing to assimilate them into their culture vs the “English” - as a result, those who have lived for now generations in either Wales or Scotland are more inclined to call themselves Scottish or Welsh.

    Also interesting that NI doesn’t have a good track record of cultural assimilation of other ethnicities- whilst there are people from other countries living in NI, the numbers are much smaller and given the population, and there appears to be a significant level of attacks on those from an ethnically diverse background on a per population basis. Also, the lack of ethnically diverse people in public roles has also been observed.


    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmniaf/159/report.html#heading-3



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Thanks for interesting map graphic but in relation to NI Unionists that's not particularly useful. As their options seemed to be Irish or British and guess which they opted for. If there was a third option in the NI census for 'Ulster', I'd be more convinced. If there were, I suspect you'd see a swing towards this from both Unionist and Nationalist communities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,930 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Ah yeah but an interesting discussion nevertheless.

    Preciseness of terminology has never been a strong point of any group in this island - “Ulster says No” is a laughable slogan considering Ulster also consists of Donegal Monaghan and Cavan- I wonder how they felt when Ian Paisley spoke on their behalf 😀


    Edit- some interesting observations as to why “Ulster” is still used as a term to describe Northern Ireland by some unionists

    https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-185487,00.html#:~:text=Ulster%20is%20comprised%20of%209,1972%2C%20when%20it%20was%20suspended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,774 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I was once told not to use the name Ulster as it was a Unionist word!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,930 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Go way, that’s an unusual thing to have said to you- must have been someone highly sensitive towards such matters.

    I would have used the term Northern Ireland growing up simply because I knew Ulster had 9 counties not 6 so calling Northern Ireland Ulster, is just geographically incorrect.

    Never paid much attention to it either way, it just made sense to me. I can see now from a bit of research that the term “Ulster” has been used by some unionists as a way of getting a dig at Ireland, knowing full well it relates to more than just the 6 counties. It’s this sort of pathetic childishness that I hope and pray we’ll never see a “United Ireland” as I couldn’t stand to be associated with such gombeens



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭newport2


    Because their other option is to call themselves Irish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The options for national identity are irish, british or northern irish, or a combination thereof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    First of all one has to get the accent right. Snobbish talk through the nose, more English or South of England, Scottish accent easily recognizable....

    I'd say people who call themselves British is just taking reference of oficial citizenship or by somebody who's say grown up in England, has had his or her education in England, but is of Scottish or Welsh background, - thus feeling attached to all 4 nations of the UK.

    And then there are those who call themselves British, because they are naturalized, or people who have grown up or were born in the United States, to say English and Scottish parents.

    There are lot's of reasons to call oneself British.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    I've met more Americans in Ireland than I have in North America (Canada).

    I think you can identify as what ever you choose but be prepared to explain it at some point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Britain is that other island to the East. It's composed of England, Wales and Scotland.

    You can either be British or Irish, but not both. I am as British as I am American, which is to say I am neither. I was born in Ireland with Irish parents.

    You can however be Irish of British extraction - ie you were born in Ireland with British ancestry. Similarly if you were born in Canada with British parents, you would consider yourself Canadian of British extraction. People born in London with Irish parents are British people of Irish extraction.

    Maybe we're not there yet but over time my view above will be the dominant one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well the map graphic above, used to support a POV is from 2011 census and seemingly only has Irish or British options for NI. So we may regard as out of date or not very useful?



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