Calling yourself British.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019804#Comment_121019804

They can say they are from the U.K. yes, of course, because it's the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Can we start calling the unionists Uckish?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019847#Comment_121019847

And hence the difficulty in identifying as “Northern Irish”- the term means very little these days and those that do identify as Northern Irish more than likely associate with norms and values that are rooted in the unionist traditions as opposed to the nationalist traditions.

The closer we move towards a vote on a united Ireland (I personally dread that day), the more I think, those that want to remain under the UK will vocally identify as British and those that want to unite with Ireland will identify as Irish, again vocally.

Tavrin Callas

Some people seem to be confused, and I guess it is confusing as it's a bit of a quirk, but ...

"Britain" does not include Northern Ireland.

But, "British" does include people from Northern Ireland.

Just look at the demonym section of the Wiki page for the United Kingdom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019932#Comment_121019932

The hardline unionists just want to identify with the former empire... the majority have a Scottish heritage, but thats not a strong enough case to stay in the 'empire' so they #call themselves British to big it up and make it sound like they are part of something bigger...

Hyperbollix

It's a strange one and is probably, like most things, personal to the individual

Reminds me of Noel Gallagher. Depending on the interviewer, he's Irish, doesn't follow the England football team and hates the monarchy. On another day he describes himself as British, played a union jack guitar, strongly identifies with Britpop and that whole Cool Britannia thing in the 90s.

As for why an Irishman like Sammy Wilson, who has spent his life trying to explain to people why he isn't actually Irish when they think he is? There's votes and a career in it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310581/calling-yourself-british

I don't think the unionist community up north would say they are exclusively or uniquely British - isn't the whole idea of stating they are British to identify with a great British population across the water? But when you scratch the surface, just as you call yourself English rather than British - the Unionist man/ woman would actually identify more as an Ulsterman or woman. Ulster has it's own culture and imho people from Donegal or Monaghan etc have more in common with those from Antrim or Armagh than they do with Cork or Kerry or Dublin.

Of course we all live on the 'British Isles' too, which is controversial but I've never heard a better alternative collective description, where & if one is needed.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019804#Comment_121019804

I don't know where you got that from The UK consists of the 'UK and NI' = British. To say otherwise is to do what a certain political party does. Which is to pretend that neither the Republic of Ireland, nor Northern Ireland exist.

Intsead they Referring to Northern Ireland as the Six Counties/the North while referring to the Republic of Ireland as 'this State', when in it - or the Irish government when talking about it the representatives of 'this state'.

Because if such a party uses the names NI or the ROI the cognitive dissonance spell is broken.

Regarding the the OP's question I get the impression that is a wind up, you only have to look at the excitement and constant mention of Britons/Team GB during the Olympics etc

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310581/calling-yourself-british

It might be equivalent to an Irish person identifying as "European"

I doubt most would, unless they are in a situation where they are the only European in a large group

I see sheep

I lived in England for a decade and OP is correct, every British person I knew thought as themselves as English, Scottish or Welsh.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019968#Comment_121019968

100%

depending on who I'm talking to I'm European or Irish. Usually European though!

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310581/calling-yourself-british

All the English people I know living in Ireland also call themselves English rather than British.

But from an earlier post

"54.8% of the population identify as British, and only as British. (This is sharply up from 2011, when only 19.1% did so.)"

So could it be that this change to using the term British simply happened since you came to Ireland, 30 yrs ago? Would English people coming here in the last ten years more likely use the term 'British' ?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019628#Comment_121019628

Monaco is a principality. I know many Welsh people who speak their own language and they definately call themselves Welsh not British.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020031#Comment_121020031

Can I ask you a question- were the vast majority of them white?

I’m curious to know just how people from an ethnic minority background might firstly describe themselves vs how a white person with roots in the British Isles going back generations might describe themselves.

Im guessing that someone maybe first “windrush” generation, but born in UK would state British as opposed to “English” ? But very happy to be corrected or educated here too.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020031#Comment_121020031

You are leaving out the second part though many say English/Scottish/Irish or Welsh. But the second part of the answer is many feel British as well you only have to look at Rory Mcllroy. He sees himself as Irish and British. But more British than Irish. Also the golf Tournament he won is called the British Open colloquially known as 'the open'.

The English seem to have varying degrees of Britishness within there own Englishness as well.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/02/14/is-it-the-english-question-or-the-british-question-the-three-strands-of-britishness/

Judging by the above the OP finds themselves in the '15%' = 'English not British'. When taking into account the rest there is about 80% or so of English people who identify with at least some form of 'Britishness'.

saabsaab

See below from 2.40..Ali G on British..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc34JKvCQ3Q

So is you 'ere on 'oliday?

jeremyr62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019899#Comment_121019899

In those circumstance, England, but again, for me the label barely matters.

snowstorm445

I think you've made a valid point that most people when asked will primarily identify with their country in the UK, and then as British. NI Unionists are the exception as they call themselves British first and foremost, with any other identities coming in distant second (Northern Irish, Ulstermen, even Irish sometimes). You see it a lot with "post-colonial" identities - people from Gibraltar/the Falklands/anywhere general away from the mother country but still identifying with it.

Basically only two sorts of people in the UK primarily identify as British - NI Unionists and ethnic minorities in England who see themselves as British but not English (which seems to regarded as an ethnic identity, unlike in Scotland and Wales where minorities are happy to call themselves Scottish or Welsh). I think this map illustrates it pretty well.

jeremyr62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019773#Comment_121019773

I hear UK passport used a lot, so not so clear cut on that one.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020083#Comment_121020083

Could that be a nationalist thing I wonder- being “English” is all that matters to me- Using the label “British” dilutes my identity and it becomes shared with other regions I don’t necessarily identify with -“ “English” is my most pure form of identity and it’s the only label I wish to identify with? “

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020083#Comment_121020083

As I’ve said above I think the more ethnically diverse you are, the more likely you are to use the term “British” vs English, Scottish etc

Possibly native Scots and Welsh are more welcoming of ethnically diverse people and willing to assimilate them into their culture vs the “English” - as a result, those who have lived for now generations in either Wales or Scotland are more inclined to call themselves Scottish or Welsh.

Also interesting that NI doesn’t have a good track record of cultural assimilation of other ethnicities- whilst there are people from other countries living in NI, the numbers are much smaller and given the population, and there appears to be a significant level of attacks on those from an ethnically diverse background on a per population basis. Also, the lack of ethnically diverse people in public roles has also been observed.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmniaf/159/report.html#heading-3

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020134#Comment_121020134

Thanks for interesting map graphic but in relation to NI Unionists that's not particularly useful. As their options seemed to be Irish or British and guess which they opted for. If there was a third option in the NI census for 'Ulster', I'd be more convinced. If there were, I suspect you'd see a swing towards this from both Unionist and Nationalist communities.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020136#Comment_121020136

Ah yeah but an interesting discussion nevertheless.

Preciseness of terminology has never been a strong point of any group in this island - “Ulster says No” is a laughable slogan considering Ulster also consists of Donegal Monaghan and Cavan- I wonder how they felt when Ian Paisley spoke on their behalf 😀

Edit- some interesting observations as to why “Ulster” is still used as a term to describe Northern Ireland by some unionists

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-185487,00.html#:~:text=Ulster%20is%20comprised%20of%209,1972%2C%20when%20it%20was%20suspended.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020583#Comment_121020583

I was once told not to use the name Ulster as it was a Unionist word!

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020832#Comment_121020832

Go way, that’s an unusual thing to have said to you- must have been someone highly sensitive towards such matters.

I would have used the term Northern Ireland growing up simply because I knew Ulster had 9 counties not 6 so calling Northern Ireland Ulster, is just geographically incorrect.

Never paid much attention to it either way, it just made sense to me. I can see now from a bit of research that the term “Ulster” has been used by some unionists as a way of getting a dig at Ireland, knowing full well it relates to more than just the 6 counties. It’s this sort of pathetic childishness that I hope and pray we’ll never see a “United Ireland” as I couldn’t stand to be associated with such gombeens

newport2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310581/calling-yourself-british

Because their other option is to call themselves Irish.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020549#Comment_121020549

The options for national identity are irish, british or northern irish, or a combination thereof.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310581/calling-yourself-british

First of all one has to get the accent right. Snobbish talk through the nose, more English or South of England, Scottish accent easily recognizable....

I'd say people who call themselves British is just taking reference of oficial citizenship or by somebody who's say grown up in England, has had his or her education in England, but is of Scottish or Welsh background, - thus feeling attached to all 4 nations of the UK.

And then there are those who call themselves British, because they are naturalized, or people who have grown up or were born in the United States, to say English and Scottish parents.

There are lot's of reasons to call oneself British.

Ramasun

I've met more Americans in Ireland than I have in North America (Canada).

I think you can identify as what ever you choose but be prepared to explain it at some point.

Fred Cryton

Britain is that other island to the East. It's composed of England, Wales and Scotland.

You can either be British or Irish, but not both. I am as British as I am American, which is to say I am neither. I was born in Ireland with Irish parents.

You can however be Irish of British extraction - ie you were born in Ireland with British ancestry. Similarly if you were born in Canada with British parents, you would consider yourself Canadian of British extraction. People born in London with Irish parents are British people of Irish extraction.

Maybe we're not there yet but over time my view above will be the dominant one.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020970#Comment_121020970

Well the map graphic above, used to support a POV is from 2011 census and seemingly only has Irish or British options for NI. So we may regard as out of date or not very useful?