Two die in the Ironman at Youghal

radiospan · 22-08-2023 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011256#Comment_121011256

In this case, yes I think the Irish Times article is misleading.

Their headline and report says that the race was "not sanctioned to go ahead". This goes further than what TI actually said, their statement says it was "not sanctioned".

Most people (including me yesterday) would understand Irish Times report as meaning the race was not allowed to go ahead. That's not the case. TI have no power to allow or disallow a race from proceeding, and when they said the race was "not sanctioned", all that means is that they would not be recognizing it as a valid triathlon, so peoples finishing times etc are not valid (at least that's my understanding from more informed posters).

Slideshowbob · 22-08-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011596#Comment_121011596

But yet did each participant need TI license and insurance?:

Will be interesting where this all ends up.....

RIP to the 2 guys and condolences to the families

Slideshowbob · 22-08-2023 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011148#Comment_121011148

yet event relied on their licences and insurances?

VinLieger · 22-08-2023 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011596#Comment_121011596

From what ive read it also means its not insured under the umbrella of TI but i may be wrong

griffin100 · 22-08-2023 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011568#Comment_121011568

I don’t know and wouldn’t like to speculate on the communications between safety boats but what I will say is that in even moderate seas safety boats have huge difficulty in keeping an eye on so many swimmers. When the waves are rolling trying to spot a football sized head can be a real struggle. If there are lots of swimmers struggling then it’s even harder.

Look at this video from San Francisco Alcatraz swim (a swim I’ve done). Not a pleasant experience trying to keep all of these swimmers safe.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=smX3YKyYvHw&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Floneswimmer.com%2F&source_ve_path=MzY4NDIsMjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo

Rows Grower · 22-08-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011288#Comment_121011288

You are the only person spinning the line that one person died after exiting the water. Another poster said one died before the event and didn't even enter the water, yet every report and statement I've read said the two athletes died during the swim.

Bobeagleburger · 22-08-2023 2:14pm

So the athletes weren't aware pre swim that the conditions were not safe in the eyes of tri ath Ireland?

That's damning, and incompetent to put mildly.

Bobeagleburger · 22-08-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011648#Comment_121011648

It's amazing that some people are bending over backwards to defend the organisers.

I hope the families of the poor people who died take them to the cleaners.

VinLieger · 22-08-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012030#Comment_121012030

As well as ignoring that the water safety team were asking for it to be canceled according to a participant who posted above.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2023 2:20pm

the question is there (for me anyway) as to whether TI's presence and sanctioning was purely down to the aspect of it being a competition - i.e. were the conditions consistent enough that it constituted a fair competition? i.e. that if they're too rough, it becomes too much of a lottery in which to fairly rank competitors?

or was their presence there for governance/regulatory purposes?

either way, the decision not being conveyed to the competitors seems unfair - if someone was on the fence about competing, knowing whether the event would count (or not) towards points/rankings could be the make or break decision for them - or is that how it works?

Rows Grower · 22-08-2023 2:31pm

Sound like it was a horrific experience for the athletes, the organisers and the people who profited from running this have a lot to answer for.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0822/1401017-ironman-participant-account/

Genghis · 22-08-2023 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012030#Comment_121012030

Agreed, but noteworthy that the only party that could advise this update at the time it was decided would have been Ironman.

The event licence is typically granted by TI an hour or so, often less, before event start as it is essential the race set up and conditions can be fully assessed and ensure they are per event plan and safety guidelines. An hour before start in triathlon, especially long distance triathlon, all competitors are registered, signed in, usually briefed, and getting dressed / set up / warmed up; they may or may not be in the direct vicinity of the start.

The way to communicate at that time is via PA / marshal team - these are under the event organisers (as distinct from TI). TI could only communicate via media or messaging (neither of which would work in the circumstances).

I do find it odd that TI refereed the race, and were also putting out some social media (later deleted) post start.

iwillhtfu · 22-08-2023 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011573#Comment_121011573

Had they moved to the proposed B swim route they would've ben pulling swimmers out of the black water. The swim got easier around the turn buoy as the current was in your favour, you would've been swimming against that current for approx 900m on the B course. Most would not have been able to sustain that effort and I think most managed to exit the swim as they could recover after the effort to the turn buoy.

Yeah_Right · 22-08-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011863#Comment_121011863

Agreed that it can be tough spotting swimmers in choppy seas from a boat or kayak. I assume the safety craft all had radios. I know we all did anytime we covered events like this. It's why I was curious about guard towers as well. I'm guessing there aren't any at that beach. Much easier to see a swimmer in distress from them.

valoren · 22-08-2023 3:14pm

If it is feasible at all, assuming the races happen seperately, then a possible route change would be the Half Ironman starting at Clay Castle near the Aura Leisure Centre (This was where the start/transition was originally scheduled for in 2019 before cancellation). From there it is just under 2 km to the current swim exit at Green Park. It would be entirely parallel to the shore line while swim entry would be easier as the breaking waves would be dissipated along the sand as opposed to crashing towards the funnel like current start point. For the Full Ironman then the start would be moved midway up the boardwalk towards Red Barn and, again, swimming parallel to the shore but, to make the full distance, up to the pier where the current finish line is i.e. where the tourist office/credit union/moby dick statue is located.

No laps. No swimming into a current. No major turning points/bottlenecks just line of sight swimming. Once out of the swim they’d need to jog back to the transition in Green Park which is about 750 metres. Ironman Wales does a similar albeit much longer such transition. The above assumes that the event even takes place in Youghal again.

Large bottle small glass · 22-08-2023 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012414#Comment_121012414

"The above assumes that the event even takes place in Youghal again."

I'd say there is a higher chance of remaking Moby Dick there than the Ironman being in Youghal again

iwillhtfu · 22-08-2023 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012414#Comment_121012414

In my experience and having swam in Youghal in every variety of conditions from flat calm to rowdier than yesterday. I can tell you if it's anyway rolling water the swim along the coast line is great fun for a comfortable swimmer but it could be a daunting puke fest to an inexperienced swimmer. They would have to swim out 200m either way to get around break water and the rocky outcrops at the head land.

Agree though a point to point swim is the only way forward to these exposed sea swims.

A2LUE42 · 22-08-2023 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012450#Comment_121012450

Interesting reference to Moby Dick considering the Mini Tri in a month's time. https://www.southcoast.club/moby-dick-triathlon

Large bottle small glass · 22-08-2023 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012789#Comment_121012789

https://open.spotify.com/track/0h2gzJQBt6duqZD6kWiz4s?si=dN3otNpgR4G6OkX58mXjEA

There's the soundtrack for their promotional video

TokTik · 22-08-2023 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011304#Comment_121011304

100%. Has personal responsibility just completely gone now??

Northernlily · 22-08-2023 5:55pm

Lots of people who took part coming forward now with their distress stories.

cantalach · 22-08-2023 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013017#Comment_121013017

Of course not. But even extremely responsible individuals are entitled to make reasonable assumptions. TI officials were to conduct a pre-race safety check and it was reasonable for participants to assume that they would be informed if TI withdrew sanction due to safety concerns. Putting it the other way around, they could reasonably assume that sanction was given if the event proceeded. From everything we've heard so far, this information was not communicated to participants. They made a decision to enter the water without being given some key information.

This is analogous to the concept of informed consent in medicine. People give consent to incur the risk of undergoing some treatment or procedure on the understanding that they have been given all relevant information. If they haven't been informed they haven't consented.

jimiseve · 22-08-2023 6:45pm

Does anyone have the financial breakdown of this event. At €600 approx entrance fee and 2k competitors - €1.2 m possible income. With most of the marshals/safety personnel being volunteers there is obviously a big profit here for someone. With that comes a huge incentive to not cancel the event. My niece took part - and re-iterated how difficult the swim was. There were too many people waiting for an hour or so to enter the water with quite an narrow entrance point.

Mullaghteelin · 22-08-2023 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011596#Comment_121011596

Numerous news bulletins throughout the day emphasised the race not being sanctioned, but none actually clarified what the implications of this was.

Perhaps they couldn't speculate any further without implying that someone or other was at fault.

iwillhtfu · 22-08-2023 7:14pm

So IM pushing it back onto TI, I can't see how TI will have anything in writing for their non sanctioning so it'll be a he said she said.

RTE news : Ironman organisers say contact came after event

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0822/1401102-ironman/

and Cork coco saying it's not our issue in anyway

https://www.corkcoco.ie/en/news/statement-from-cork-county-council-on-ironman-2023?fbclid=IwAR2f0hhvsxDHnqws2EUjHaooz8zgGORUvWNtUUpNruR71KROZHedV5hq1gU

iwillhtfu · 22-08-2023 7:18pm

I also see this on their web page 😬

22-08-2023 7:52pm

I just. Any help recalling my late dry elderly mother’s se time ts when she was told by his wife she was beside an Iron Man, brief explanation. “Well aren’t you the most accomplished man in the world, Amazing that I’m beside you, you are a true marvel and example to us all!”

Her little way of levelling things 🤣

22-08-2023 8:01pm

I was only through Youghal a couple of times. Looking on it in Streetview it’s a fabulous place, also some breakers on the shore & a red flag. But, a fabulous looking seaside place that might deserve a dedicated visit from me.

Furze99 · 22-08-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013383#Comment_121013383

Suppose it depends as to how the advice was communicated in the morning and if there were witnesses. I'd have thought it's in the interests of all to have clarity. From TI's perspective, the future cost of insurance and viability of events. From Ironman's POV, whether they ever run an event in Ireland again. Cork CoCo likely don't care one way or another - just a vehicle for them. So a confused narrative will suit no one.

Two die in the Ironman at Youghal

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